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> Unarmed adept
Boomer1985
post Mar 16 2012, 05:15 AM
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I did a search for this and havent really seen an answer for it.

Can an adept use critical strike with the hardliner gloves in arsenal?

My view is that they are both part of unarmed combat so yes but i cna see the argument either way. There wont be any houseruling for this so i would like to stick as close to the books as possible.

And before you accuse me of so i am a slight powergamer but i play w/ other powergamers and i would love for these to stack so i can get those gloves as weapon foci.
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 05:29 AM
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QUOTE (Boomer1985 @ Mar 16 2012, 12:15 AM) *
I did a search for this and havent really seen an answer for it.

Can an adept use critical strike with the hardliner gloves in arsenal?

My view is that they are both part of unarmed combat so yes but i cna see the argument either way. There wont be any houseruling for this so i would like to stick as close to the books as possible.

And before you accuse me of so i am a slight powergamer but i play w/ other powergamers and i would love for these to stack so i can get those gloves as weapon foci.


Sadly No as the Hardliner gloves are a Weapon, it just uses the same Skill to attack with.
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BishopMcQ
post Mar 16 2012, 05:32 AM
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Because they are listed as items, the consensus most times I've seen this come up is "no, it doesn't work."
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Boomer1985
post Mar 16 2012, 05:41 AM
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Yeah i was afraid of that basiclly you cant focus ur chi that way/ the gloves would break hitting that hard or something like that. ill just build a sword adept then itll take less karma for me to get him where i want him then
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 05:42 AM
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QUOTE (Boomer1985 @ Mar 16 2012, 12:41 AM) *
Yeah i was afraid of that basiclly you cant focus ur chi that way/ the gloves would break hitting that hard or something like that. ill just build a sword adept then itll take less karma for me to get him where i want him then


Don't forget to possess your sword for Extra damage and Armor Pen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)
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Boomer1985
post Mar 16 2012, 05:47 AM
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QUOTE (Ragewind @ Mar 16 2012, 12:42 AM) *
Don't forget to possess your sword for Extra damage and Armor Pen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)



Possess??
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 05:48 AM
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QUOTE (Boomer1985 @ Mar 16 2012, 12:47 AM) *
Possess??


Throw a Possession Spirit or a Inhabiation Spirit into the item. It increases all of the items attributes/stats by its force as well as making practically indestructible and giving you access to whatever powers the spirit has like Movment or Magical Guard.
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Boomer1985
post Mar 16 2012, 05:53 AM
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QUOTE (Ragewind @ Mar 16 2012, 12:48 AM) *
Throw a Possession Spirit or a Inhabiation Spirit into the item. It increases all of the items attributes/stats by its force as well as making practically indestructible and giving you access to whatever powers the spirit has like Movment or Magical Guard.


Ohh yeah that makes sense.

Well i was gonna go straight adept and was eventually gonna sacrifice a magic point for increased reflexes bioware at least r2 and if i can get it beta ware r3 that way i only lose one point of essence and get 3 to 5 magic poi9nts of the exact same thing just a base r2 increased reflexes is cheaper than the 1.5pp adept version

EDIT - Oh and i think the group as a whole doesnt like possesion type spirits. there is a slight limit on how far we will go lol
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 05:56 AM
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QUOTE (Boomer1985 @ Mar 16 2012, 12:53 AM) *
Ohh yeah that makes sense.

Well i was gonna go straight adept and was eventually gonna sacrifice a magic point for increased reflexes bioware at least r2 and if i can get it beta ware r3 that way i only lose one point of essence and get 3 to 5 magic poi9nts of the exact same thing just a base r2 increased reflexes is cheaper than the 1.5pp adept version


Don't ever spend essence on stuff like that, just use Magic. Increase Reflexes is the way to go, since you can also cast it on other people, thus being a force multiplier.
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Boomer1985
post Mar 16 2012, 06:01 AM
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The adept version isnt castable it only affects u and is always on so from what i can see in this one case its actually better to go bioware

just cost a frikking lot of money to do it right
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 06:04 AM
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QUOTE (Boomer1985 @ Mar 16 2012, 01:01 AM) *
The adept version isnt castable it only affects u and is always on so from what i can see in this one case its actually better to go bioware

just cost a frikking lot of money to do it right


Okay what you do is cast Improve Reflexes at F1, you take your dice (10 or whatever) and add your edge into the roll. As per Shadowrun's own rules, because you added edge you are now allowed to bypass the 1 hit restriction on a F1 spell. You then get say...6 hits. This gives you +6 to Initiative and 4 Passes, you can now place your F1 spell with 6 hits into a F1 Sustaining Focus for 10k Nuyen.

Ta DA

you never suffer the minus for keeping it up, and you get to enjoy greater benefits as well. Ergo, Mystic Adepts are the shizz

I would prefer to spend those 1.5 PP on better things..such as improving a skill to 9 or 10.
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 06:05 AM
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Double Post??
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phlapjack77
post Mar 16 2012, 06:13 AM
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QUOTE (Ragewind @ Mar 16 2012, 01:48 PM) *
Throw a Possession Spirit or a Inhabiation Spirit into the item. It increases all of the items attributes/stats by its force as well as making practically indestructible and giving you access to whatever powers the spirit has like Movment or Magical Guard.


QUOTE (Ragewind @ Mar 16 2012, 02:04 PM) *
Okay what you do is cast Improve Reflexes at F1, you take your dice (10 or whatever) and add your edge into the roll. As per Shadowrun's own rules, because you added edge you are now allowed to bypass the 1 hit restriction on a F1 spell. You then get say...6 hits. This gives you +6 to Initiative and 4 Passes, you can now place your F1 spell with 6 hits into a F1 Sustaining Focus for 10k Nuyen.

Not everybody agrees these ideas are actual rules or allowed. Boomer, make sure to ask your GM how he feels about this.

QUOTE (Boomer1985 @ Mar 16 2012, 02:01 PM) *
The adept version isnt castable it only affects u and is always on so from what i can see in this one case its actually better to go bioware

just cost a frikking lot of money to do it right

Many people think phys ad + bioware is really the "best" option, so if you like the actual character idea, go with it. You can fit a lot of useful cyber + bio in one Essence point, esp. if you take the Biocompatibility quality. If you don't want to sacrifice essense, see if your GM will allow the Way of the Adept book, then pick up The Warriors Way quality, add a geas to the Increase Reflexes ability, and the PP cost is a lot lower. And if you're using the Adepts Ways and using cyber/bio, the Burnouts Way gives even more essence-loss reductions.*

*so I hear - don't have the book myself...
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The Jake
post Mar 16 2012, 06:20 AM
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QUOTE (Ragewind @ Mar 16 2012, 06:48 AM) *
Throw a Possession Spirit or a Inhabiation Spirit into the item. It increases all of the items attributes/stats by its force as well as making practically indestructible and giving you access to whatever powers the spirit has like Movment or Magical Guard.



Finally, I can make up Thor the Troll Warrior Adept and Mjolnir, the Possessed Warhammer of Doooooom....

- J.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 16 2012, 06:26 AM
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Indeed, phlapjack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE
If the vessel is inanimate or dead, the spirit’s Force is added to any appropriate Physical ratings (at the gamemaster’s discretion).
The GM decides what's appropriate.
QUOTE
the spirit may use all of its powers on the physical plane through such a vessel,
… Not the person holding the spirit. It can probably use powers for you, on its own initiative/turns, as Services as normal.
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 06:38 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 16 2012, 01:26 AM) *
1)The GM decides what's appropriate.…
2)Not the person holding the spirit. It can probably use powers for you, on its own initiative/turns, as Services as normal.


1) Obviously
2) Obviously

QUOTE
Finally, I can make up Thor the Troll Warrior Adept and Mjolnir, the Possessed Warhammer of Doooooom....


Whats keeping you then, its all easy enough

QUOTE
Not everybody agrees these ideas are actual rules or allowed. Boomer, make sure to ask your GM how he feels about this.


Edge Bypassing force is actually the rule, not even a optional one.
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phlapjack77
post Mar 16 2012, 06:46 AM
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A good thread about possession and items (some good ideas / some bad ideas / many opinions) is here:
Possession of objects thread

QUOTE (Ragewind @ Mar 16 2012, 02:38 PM) *
Edge Bypassing force is actually the rule, not even a optional one.

Allowing an Edge-boosted Inc Ref spell to be put in a F1 Sustaining Focus is purely power-gamer made up, however.

Again, Boomer, see if your table allows this.
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 06:48 AM
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QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Mar 16 2012, 01:46 AM) *
Allowing an Edge-boosted Inc Ref spell to be put in a F1 Sustaining Focus is purely power-gamer made up, however.

Again, Boomer, see if your table allows this.


I don't see how as it is still a F1 spell, adding or not adding edge does not change this.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 16 2012, 06:48 AM
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It's not obvious to everyone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've seen many instances here on Dumpshock of people claiming that the possession-stat-boosts are pure RAW, and that possessed-item powers function for the wielder (esp. things like Elemental Aura). In the interest of helping players, the warnings from phlapjack and myself are completely valid.
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 16 2012, 01:48 AM) *
It's not obvious to everyone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've seen many instances here on Dumpshock of people claiming that the possession-stat-boosts are pure RAW, and that possessed-item powers function for the wielder (esp. things like Elemental Aura). In the interest of helping players, the warnings from phlapjack and myself are completely valid.


Fair enough, I knew what you were talking about though. I do read things on occasion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

Also go to bed Yerameyahu, its late
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Makki
post Mar 16 2012, 07:01 AM
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for an unarmed adept I recommend the Kick-Attack Martial Arts Maneuver. Or headbutting.
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 07:02 AM
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QUOTE (Makki @ Mar 16 2012, 02:01 AM) *
for an unarmed adept I recommend the Kick-Attack Martial Arts Maneuver. Or headbutting.


Seconded, Makki knows what he is talking about.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 16 2012, 07:08 AM
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You can also just ask the GM to allow your Hardliner trick, if it's appropriate for your group and power level. What the rules say is less important than the group's and GM's will, especially if you're not being a munchkin about it.

You see a similar question when people want Hardliner weapon foci, yes. Same answers, IMO.
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Ragewind
post Mar 16 2012, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 16 2012, 02:08 AM) *
You can also just ask the GM to allow your Hardliner trick, if it's appropriate for your group and power level. What the rules say is less important than the group's and GM's will, especially if you're not being a munchkin about it


That's a very neutral stance, its also very dismissive at the same time. You're basically saying "Meh, I don't feel like arguing anymore, just ask the GM"

As a Aside, "Munchkin" is also a subjective term, it changes per person. What you consider a Munchkin, perhaps I don't, hence the problems with using such descriptor words.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 16 2012, 07:14 AM
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No, it's a comment that comes at the end of a helpful thread where the other answers have been covered, and I agree with them. I felt it acceptable to remind the OP that the RAW is not god. (… The GM is!)

I'm okay with that. If I worried about slight variations in word meanings, I wouldn't be able to say anything. Wouldn't that be tragic? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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