Sixth World Magic: Mind Probe, Just what does getting probed mean... Options

[Paul]

Okay the stat block for Mind Probe basically says the target is aware of what's happening, but doesn't really give you much indication of what that really entails or means. So what sort of thoughts do you have on the subject?

[Draco18s]

Mind Probe is "mental rape."

People tend not to like it much.

[Angelone]

I've always imagined Mind Probing is like going through a pile of clothes really fast, kinda just getting all up in there trying to dig out what you want. Only in someones brain.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And the fact that they know what is going on means that they can take steps to stop it. Much like with real rape, it is an unpleasant and traumatic experience to have to endure, and many individuals will do whatever they can to make it stop.

[CanRay]

Bubba The Love Mage.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Bubba The Love Mage.

So, Bubba the Love Troll with a magical lodge, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[TheOOB]

At best, the target gets the unpleasant sensation that someone is taking their memories, at worst every horribly memory is violently brought to the forefront of their mind and painfully ripped away, giving the target a sense of humiliation, pain, and worthlessness worse than can be accomplished by any physical act.

Up to your GM had bad it is, but considering the setting I'd usually wager more on the "it's bad" side rather than the "it's unpleasant" side.

[Mordinvan]

I totally love how everyone reads that the experience is traumatic, and rape like without the text of the spell indicating anything of the sort, that's really wonderful.

[Paul]

I think I understand why they feel that way, but I agree that the text is rather vague on what the actual experience is. As I am the GM I am trying to decide on what the base line experience is when being mind probed.

[UmaroVI]

Based on what the text is, you get a sensation that is unique, as in, not like anything other than "being mind probed," and doesn't have any other distinguishing characteristics. I would suggest using Logic+Magical Background (or other appropriate knowledge skill, or Logic-1) to recognize that it's "being mind probed" for people who haven't been mindprobed before. I don't think you need to throw on anything else for half-baked balance purposes - even if it felt like kittens and sunshine, most people will be plenty upset about the invasion of privacy.

[Neraph]

I tried to find video of it, but basically whenever someone encounters the Shadows, pisses off the Vorlons, or gets forcibly read by a Psi Cop in Babylon 5 is what I see.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I tried to find video of it, but basically whenever someone encounters the Shadows, pisses off the Vorlons, or gets forcibly read by a Psi Cop in Babylon 5 is what I see.

Apt comparison I would think...

[Draco18s]

I think I understand why they feel that way, but I agree that the text is rather vague on what the actual experience is. As I am the GM I am trying to decide on what the base line experience is when being mind probed.

That's when you go to the literature.
Various fiction novels have described it as a feeling of someone rifling through the filecabinet of the mind, as if all of your thoughts are bits of paper, filed away, some in dark corners, and then an intruder coming in and shining a light around, picking stuff up (which you then remember that event) and when they find what they want, the sense that they stole something (you obviously still have the memory).

[Angelone]

That's when you go to the literature.
Various fiction novels have described it as a feeling of someone rifling through the filecabinet of the mind, as if all of your thoughts are bits of paper, filed away, some in dark corners, and then an intruder coming in and shining a light around, picking stuff up (which you then remember that event) and when they find what they want, the sense that they stole something (you obviously still have the memory).

That, that's what I wanted to say.

The whole "mind rape" is in my games anti-mage propaganda and it's nothing so traumatic.

[CanRay]

Depends on how much the person resists in my mind. If you're OK with it, you got people going through the papers of your mind.

If not... Well, mental waterboarding is what you wish happened.

[BishopMcQ]

There is also a lot of shadow-talk tossing around brain-rape, mind-rape etc. Usually Winterhawk comes and calls it propaganda and drivel.

Still, you have to ask yourself, how would you describe another person's will pressed against your mind, flittering though all of your deepest secrets? Many people would think of that as a violation of their minds, on a very personal level. English doesn't have a lot of words for "deep, personal violation," which means the emotionally charged ones like "rape" will be used to describe the feeling.

Even if the physical sensation is drastically different, on an emotional and visceral level, the way the feeling is described after the fact will greatly depend on how impartial the subject is, how they were prepared for it--knowing it would happen or being caught by surprise, and previous experiences and emotional health.

[Sengir]

The chapter on nagas in RW has a first-person account of being mind probed several times (which the naga seem to consider a normal means of communication), the writer does not sound too traumatized...

[CanRay]

The chapter on nagas in RW has a first-person account of being mind probed several times (which the naga seem to consider a normal means of communication), the writer does not sound too traumatized...

Probably because they're communicating, rather than trying to find out some deep, dark, hidden secret buried so deeply that the person doesn't even want to acknowledge it's existence him/herself.

Yes, I've had those come to the surface, don't know about rape, but it did make me feel soiled and polluted. Like a psychic boil that had been poorly lanced and the toxin spread throughout my soul.

[Paul]

The only problem I have with the "go to the literature" reply is that my literary experience may not be shared with my players. It's not that I oppose it out of hand, but rather that I'll have to be careful before i settle on it as the final answer.

[Yerameyahu]

*shrug* You're asking about fluff, so all we have to go on is fluff. No, there are no listed numeric effects for 'feelings of violation', 'distress', etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ShadowDragon8685]

*shrug* You're asking about fluff, so all we have to go on is fluff. No, there are no listed numeric effects for 'feelings of violation', 'distress', etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sounds like a composure test, really.

[Yerameyahu]

That's a possible house rule, but I meant that the absence of crunch effects implies there *are* none. That's not incompatible with all kinds of emotional responses.

[Sengir]

Probably because they're communicating, rather than trying to find out some deep, dark, hidden secret buried so deeply that the person doesn't even want to acknowledge it's existence him/herself.

Well, most uses of mind probe (at least in the context of SR games) are not concerned with repressed childhood memories, but rather with judging intentions:
The first sign we had entered the naga nation was the sudden appearance of two large naga, backed by several large spirits. I assume they were using magic to hide themselves. The prevalence of metahuman hunters and corporate “harvesting” teams mean that metahumans are viewed with suspicion or hostility in naga territory. We each submitted to a magical mind probe by the larger naga—a highly trained magician, obviously—and was that a strange feeling! Very alien.
...or maybe something like this:
Also had a few strange moments when a pair of youths decided to “experience” my senses. Magic use on other beings is considered permissible, within limits. I have yet to see a naga use magic against another naga in a manipulative or hostile way. Where I find mind probes intrusive, they have evolved to see them as efficient communication methods.

[CanRay]

Might also depend on the type of spell used. One variety of the Mind Probe spell might be "It's your first time, so I'll be gentle", while the other kind is more of a "SQUEAL LIKE A PIG!!!"

[BishopMcQ]

Well, most uses of mind probe (at least in the context of SR games) are not concerned with repressed childhood memories, but rather with judging intentions

I've also seen a lot of "pry the data out of his skull" or "what good blackmail can we get to force him to do X for us."

Overall, I think we've ridden around the carousel a few times now. The feeling of the mind probe can easily be based on the intention of the mage casting it--from "grab your ankles and beg" to "this will feel odd, but I'll be gentle." Perhaps the more you fight against the probe, the more it hurts--which would be akin to the Psi-Cop analogy earlier. Fighting against a scan made it harder on the person than accepting it.