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> Earthdawn/Shadowrun attributes
Jason Farlander
post Apr 12 2004, 01:54 AM
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Just a quick question... How would you convert the attributes of something in Earthdawn into Shadowrun? I recently got my hands on an Earthdawn sourcebook that I would be interested in using in a Shadowrun campaign. It doesnt seem as if it would be difficult to convert them - I just dont have any real sense of exactly how powerful these things are supposed to be. Thanks
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Ancient History
post Apr 12 2004, 02:01 AM
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Either use the step number, or divide by three. Up to you.
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Jason Farlander
post Apr 12 2004, 02:07 AM
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Dont know what you mean by "using the step number," and dividing by 3 seems rather weak...
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Ancient History
post Apr 12 2004, 02:15 AM
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Okay, ED attributes typically range from 1 to 18, sometimes higher. Dividing by 3 can give you an attribute number within the typical SR spectrum.

However, the attributes give you step numbers, which are the actual mechanic, and they typically range from 1-9, which is also within the typical SR spectrum.
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Jason Farlander
post Apr 12 2004, 02:31 AM
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Hmm... Well, I must say that I dont really see what the fuss is concerning Horrors that lack the Damage Shift power. They dont seem to be all that powerful in the greater scheme of things.
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Ancient History
post Apr 12 2004, 02:33 AM
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Horrors vary in power, subtlety, and strengths. Damage shift is nasty, but you can be just as dead when a trio of gharmeks send 150 cadaver men at you.
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Dalassa
post Apr 12 2004, 02:51 AM
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So in Shadowrun would Horrors have immunity to normal weapons? :evil:
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Ancient History
post Apr 12 2004, 02:53 AM
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Again, depends on the Horror. But genreally speaking, any strictly physical or dual-natured Horror is vulnerable to normal weapons to some extent.
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Egon
post Apr 12 2004, 03:16 AM
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Cannon or not I always thought the immunity to normal weapons rules were pretty lame. If they wanted to make magic things have an equivalent of harden armor or make certain attack types less effective they could have come up with something better. It has always been one of the few things that bug me in shadowrun's rules.
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mfb
post Apr 12 2004, 04:04 AM
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i think it works really well. more powerful spirits are harder to damage, weaker spirits still have an edge that makes them viable opponents for runners. what, specifically, don't you like about it?

and, for the love of mike, it's 'canon'.
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Moonstone Spider
post Apr 12 2004, 06:08 AM
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QUOTE (Jason Farlander)
Hmm... Well, I must say that I dont really see what the fuss is concerning Horrors that lack the Damage Shift power. They dont seem to be all that powerful in the greater scheme of things.

Eh, it's been debated back and forth. Statwise Horrors don't look too much like they stack up vs. SR milspec and SOTA gear, they'd probably have to rely on cunning rather that just an outright assault. In my opinion It's really SR's space program that will make or break the next scourge, with a health space-industry going Metahumanity will have an effectively infinite Kaer that can destroy Horrors on the ground instantly if they spot them, while providing limitless material resources to support horror-hunters on the ground.

But as I said, it's not the horror's powers that make them a problem, it's their cunning. In SR you can make a physical adept at chargen who can take a Great Dragon in bareknuckle combat, but he'd never get that close to the GD who is too cunning to allow it and would wax him at a distance.
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BitBasher
post Apr 12 2004, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE
But as I said, it's not the horror's powers that make them a problem, it's their cunning. In SR you can make a physical adept at chargen who can take a Great Dragon in bareknuckle combat,
Not unless you can get his str over 19 to get past the dragons hardened armor :D
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CircuitBoyBlue
post Apr 12 2004, 11:23 PM
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The beauty of horrors is that they're such a varied opponent. We in the shadowrun world often get dazzled by the idea of these creatures that once destroyed damn near everything (if in fact Earthdawn and Shadowrun are supposed to take place in the same world--I personally think they weren't originally intended to; it's something that got written in at a time when much of SR was becoming lame). A good thorough reading of Earthdawn shows that "horror" is just a term for anything that lives in astral space. Technically, a lot of the spirits used in SR would fall under that definition. Ignoring that, though, it also means that a lot of horrors are weak. The trick there is that there are a LOT of them. Part of the scourge that ED was recovering from was horrible just because there were hordes of these things going around. If your group wants to play SR as if it were a continuation of ED, you can make things either easy on the 6th world (by only letting minor horrors show up), or extremely difficult (by bringing up the fact that nobody in SR uses a spell matrix--they're ALL screwed) or anything in between. In short, though, some horrors are wimps compared to a lot of SR characters. But as gamemaster, you can also make them much more powerful. Basically, horrors could conceivably have any power found anywhere in SR, and a whole lot more. They're really the most flexible enemy you can come up with, because you can mold them for ANY power level of character. Just be prudent about it. They might make your game kinda weird if you let things get out of control. Then again, weird might be what you're going for, which is also cool...
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shadd4d
post Apr 12 2004, 11:27 PM
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I haven't picked up SOTA yet, but doesn't the filtering Metatechnique introduce the spell matricies or am I grasping straws at that one?

Don
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Moonstone Spider
post Apr 13 2004, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE (BitBasher)
QUOTE
But as I said, it's not the horror's powers that make them a problem, it's their cunning. In SR you can make a physical adept at chargen who can take a Great Dragon in bareknuckle combat,
Not unless you can get his str over 19 to get past the dragons hardened armor :D

Bleh, should have said "Melee combat" instead of bareknuckle. My bad.

Getting back to the main point of stat conversion, I don't have the core book to Earthdawn but it seems to me the most logical mathematical basis for conversion would be weight.

A Shadowrunner with Strength 4 can carry 20 Kilos with no appreciable effect on his actions.

How much weight per point of Strength can an Earthdawner carry? If it's, say, 20 kilos for 12 strength the divide by 3 system would be right on. Once you have a logical basis for comparison from that then apply the same formula to all the other attributes.

So, anybody know how much an Earthdawn human can carry relative to strength?
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Herald of Verjig...
post Apr 13 2004, 02:56 AM
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(5+5/point) lbs

So, to properly convert (by encumberance standards): add one, divide by 2.2 and round to the nearest whole number.
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Moonstone Spider
post Apr 13 2004, 04:47 AM
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Could you be a little more clear on that equation? By what you just wrote nobody could ever carry more than 10 pounds and your ability to carry weight actually goes down as your strength goes up.

I'm guessing what you meant to type was 5 + 5*points pounds rather than dividing. That means our str 18 Earthdawn metahuman can pick up 95 pounds, which is pretty good if it gives you no penalties at all. Does str 18 apply to humans or are we talking Trolls at that point?

That gives us 43 kilograms, which we'll round up to 45, giving us Str 9 for a shadowrun character.

Thus conversions work as follows (Note that weights have been rounded to nearest 5 lbs/kilos, which is why it seems to skip and jump a bit.)

ED Str: 18
SR Str: 9
Pound: 95
Kilo: 45

ED Str: 17
SR Str: 8
Pound: 90
Kilo: 40

ED Str: 16
SR Str: 8
Pound: 85
Kilo: 40

ED Str: 15
SR Str: 7
Pound: 80
Kilo: 35

ED Str: 15
SR Str: 7
Pound: 75
Kilo: 35

ED Str: 14
SR Str: 6
Pound: 70
Kilo: 30

ED Str: 13
SR Str: 6
Pound: 65
Kilo: 30

ED Str: 12
SR Str: 6
Pound: 60
Kilo: 30

ED Str: 11
SR Str: 5
Pound: 55
Kilo: 25

ED Str: 10
SR Str: 4
Pound: 50
Kilo: 20

ED Str: 9
SR Str: 4
Pound: 45
Kilo: 20

ED Str: 8
SR Str: 4
Pound: 40
Kilo: 20

ED Str: 7
SR Str: 3
Pound: 35
Kilo: 15

ED Str: 6
SR Str: 3
Pound: 30
Kilo: 15

ED Str: 5
SR Str: 2
Pound: 25
Kilo: 10

ED Str: 4
SR Str: 2
Pound: 20
Kilo: 10

ED Str: 3
SR Str: 1
Pound: 15
Kilo: 5

Thus we have it, since metahumans in SR can't go below 1 any ED str of 3 or less is 1. It seems reasonable enough to compare all other stats at the same conversion rate.




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Herald of Verjig...
post Apr 13 2004, 05:11 AM
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That was supposed to read "five plus five per point"
[edit] my mistake, the rate changes after strength 7 (should remember to read closely the first time)

7: 40
8: 50
9: 60
10: 70
11: 80
12: 90
13: 105
14: 125
15: 145
16: 165
17: 200
18: 230
19: 270
20: 315

the chart goes up to 30, with a unencumbered capacity of 1,405 pounds. If you need anything above 20, (SR strength of 29 by encumberance rules) maybe that PC shouldn't be crossed over.
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Jason Farlander
post Apr 13 2004, 05:20 AM
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Alright, thanks. This conversion seems a bit more to my liking than division by 3 in terms of where I would like the power levels to be.

[Edit] ...or maybe not. So attributes in ED scale strangely, eh? If I'm understanding the combination of Herald of Verjigorm's and Moonstone Spider's data correctly, here are the actual conversions:

ED | SR
1 : 1
2 : 1
3 : 1
4 : 2
5 : 2
6 : 3
7 : 4
8 : 4
9 : 6
10 : 6
11 : 7
12 : 8
13 : 9

Is this correct? That seems rather strange to me, but, then again, I don't really have any way to judge the reasonableness of that conversion.[/Edit]

This post has been edited by Jason Farlander: Apr 13 2004, 05:56 AM
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Kanada Ten
post Apr 13 2004, 05:25 AM
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QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)
It's really SR's space program that will make or break the next scourge, with a health space-industry going Metahumanity will have an effectively infinite Kaer that can destroy Horrors on the ground instantly if they spot them, while providing limitless material resources to support horror-hunters on the ground.

I have seen zero evidence that even remotly suggests Horrors, which cause mana warps, will be affected by them in any negative manner.
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