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> Medusa Char. with Karmagen..., ....there must be a mistake.
Machiavelli
post Mar 20 2012, 07:06 PM
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Like i already pointed out, i remade my Medusa-Char. with the Karma-Build-System and i am really confused. I have so much Karma left, that there must be a mistake. I have never before used this system, so please have a look and tell me where i am wrong. Annotation: In the BP-system there are zero points left and we use attribute*3 for raising attributes.


Race Elf 0 Karma
Body 2 6 Karma
Strenght 2 6 Karma
Agility 4 21 Karma
Reaction 4 27 Karma
Intuition 4 27 Karma
Willpower 4 27 Karma
Charisma 3 0 Karma
Logic 2 6 Karma

Essence 6 0 Karma
Magic 4 27 Karma
Edge 1 0 Karma


Mystic-Adept 20 Karma
Surge Rating 2 20 Karma
Limited Equipment 10 Karma


Wanted +20 Karma
Sensitive System +30 Karma
SINer (criminal) +20 Karma

Infiltration 4 22 Karma
Sorcery 4 22 Karma
Dispelling 4 22 Karma
Close combat 4 22 Karma
Automatics 6 44 Karma
Gymnastics 4 22 Karma
Perception 4 22 Karma
Conjuring-group 4 55 Karma

6 Spells 30 Karma

Binding costs for foci (2 sustaining foci rating 3, 1 sustaining focus rating 5): 22 Karma

Language rating 3: 7 Karma
Language rating 2: 4 Karma

Ressources: 42 Karma


Left karma: 278

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UmaroVI
post Mar 20 2012, 07:07 PM
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The German errata to karmagen updates race cost to karma=bp, and attribute cost to x5 new value, not x3 new value. Also, did you have no Knowledge skills at all in BP-gen, aside from 5 points of languages?
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Machiavelli
post Mar 20 2012, 07:43 PM
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Ah, knowledge skills are not inclusive?
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Thanee
post Mar 20 2012, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Mar 20 2012, 08:06 PM) *
and we use attribute*3 for raising attributes.


There is your mistake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The Attribute x3 version is pretty much broken, especially when using SR4A.

Change Attribute Cost to x5 and Metatype Cost to BP=Karma (the limit of 1/2 total Karma (i.e. 375 for the standard 750 Karma) for improving Physical/Mental Attributes is increased by 2x the Metataype's BP Cost; i.e. an Elf (30 BP) costs 30 Karma and can spend 60 Karma more on Attributes, that is 375+60=435 of the 750 total can be used that way) and you will see that it works much better.

Also the limit for Attributes should not apply to Special Attributes (Edge, Magic, etc), but only to Physical and Mental Attributes (like in the BP system).

Bye
Thanee
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Glyph
post Mar 21 2012, 02:12 AM
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In Karmagen, Attributes increase in cost exponentially rather than at a flat rate - that's one of the reasons you have more points. So even if you change to the x 5 multiplier to Attributes, having no Attributes higher than 4 will skew it (although karmagen tends to work out to more than 400 BP for most builds). Another thing - you have it correctly for conjuring, but sorcery and close combat are skill groups too; they will cost 55 points each, not 22.
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Irion
post Mar 21 2012, 06:40 AM
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Your money is off too
Sustaining foci: 10k per point raiting.
You have bought 3+3+5=11 Points of raiting.
Translating into 110k, translating into 44Karma.
(If you start naked short of that you have allready spent 44 Karma on ressources!)
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Machiavelli
post Mar 24 2012, 01:20 PM
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I have now made all the changes you talked about and nevertheless had nearly 150 karma left. This gave me the opportunity to raise several attributes, buy 2 additional spells and learn a new language. Karmagen rocks!!!
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Thanee
post Mar 24 2012, 08:42 PM
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If you do not overspecialize, yes, it is beneficial. Generalist builds tend to benefit from Karmagen the most.

Bye
Thanee
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Elfenlied
post Mar 24 2012, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Mar 24 2012, 02:20 PM) *
Karmagen rocks!!!


With x3 for Attributes, of course it rocks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 24 2012, 10:07 PM
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I bet it'd be even better with x2 for Attributes!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Glyph
post Mar 24 2012, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Mar 24 2012, 12:42 PM) *
If you do not overspecialize, yes, it is beneficial. Generalist builds tend to benefit from Karmagen the most.

Bye
Thanee

The most, yes, but personally, I have found that my specialist builds come out ahead in Karmagen, too.

QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Mar 24 2012, 12:46 PM) *
With x3 for Attributes, of course it rocks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

He was saying this after changing to x 5 for Attributes.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 24 2012, 11:29 PM
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Did he? That wasn't my impression.
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Glyph
post Mar 24 2012, 11:36 PM
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That's how I read "I have now made all the changes you talked about", but yeah, maybe he was only talking about fixing the errors.
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Machiavelli
post Mar 30 2012, 06:45 AM
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Yes, i really made ALL the changes, including the attribute costs. Otherwise my GM would realize that this char. is way overpowered. With attributesx3 you can nearly max out everything. If you donīt max out attributes, skills etc. you really come out great with karmagen. Like i said, with this kind of buildup my char. is ways better than before. Of course especially the attributes are on mid-range levels with only 1 at rating 5 and everything else below that, but i could increase magic a lot and until rating 4 all skills are ridiculously cheap.

I love it.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 30 2012, 06:47 AM
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Cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Glad I misunderstood.
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Halinn
post Mar 30 2012, 03:55 PM
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Yeah, karmagen gives a more power to characters with lower ratings in things compared to BP. It's the whole issue of scaling costs vs. flat costs. I find it to be one of the main benefits of the system, really.
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