What happens if you break wireless/wired connectivity to Black IC without jacking out? Options

[ShadowDragon8685]

Another edge case that came up, but one which is likely to be highly relevant to me in the near future, given how Black Hammer-happy my AI player is. (That's right, the one who responded to getting sniffed at with a playful analyze by making a kid's brains leak out his ears. Hopefully she's learned her lesson... But doubtful.)

Anyway, to make the situation clear... Suppose you and your buddy, a street samurai with Wired Reflexes 2 (so he's moving as fast in the meatspace as you are in the Matrix,) are camping in the wilderness. You have your commlink's wireless connectivity shut off, and the same is true of the connectivity of the Nexus in the truck you're connecting through and using as an Agent puppet; both you and the truck are getting wireless connectivity to the world at large by a portable satellite uplink dish you set up on the ground outside the truck.

Suppose you're noodling around in the Nexus when some mean mother-hubbard schlupps on in from the Matrix and starts attacking you in cybercombat. You, being a damn good hacker with a high-rated Biofeedback Filter up, are not immediately taken down by this, but you decide you don't particularly want to have your brains leak out. The Sammie is alert, also moving around with 3 IP a round, and not in VR, but is paying attention to AR.

You use a simple action to tell the Sammie you just got hit with Black Hammer and can't jack out, and tell him to do something. He responds by shooting the satellite uplink/cutting its fiber-optic cable with his monokatana/pulling the power cord on his next IP.

Now... What happens? There's no longer a wireless connection to the Matrix, so the guy who came onto your Nexus and attacked you gets to eat some dumpshock, as I understand it. But you... Your icon is fine. You weren't dumped from anything; you weren't actually in the larger Matrix, so you didn't get dumped out of anything, you were just in the local nexus - upstream from your commlink, but still isolated and local. Does the "jammed open connection" feature of Black Hammer still apply, and leave you unable to jack out, or does it get terminated with the lack of a Matrix "line of sight" to the guy that hit you with the Hammer? If it does still apply, does it trap you in a limbo state, or will it time out after a while?

[Yerameyahu]

Dumpshock. (Not for any good reason, just on principle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

I don't understand the point that 'the nexus isn't the matrix', though. Any persona presence is 'the matrix', AFAIK, but I'm more confused why you mention it at all. The scenario is that the remote Black IC connection is lost, right? And the defending hacker stays exactly where he is (connected from his commlink to the nexus)? So it's not a factor. :/

Seriously though, I assume nothing happens. If *you* weren't using the WAN connection, you don't care. It's an interesting question, because I'd never considered 'offensive' Black IC jamming open someone's connection. It's usually a defensive ploy. I hope someone else has a better answer!

[UmaroVI]

You don't take dumpshock but your connection is still jammed open.

Reason: you take dumpshock if you jack out - meaning, disconnect from your persona program - while in VR. You didn't do this; your persona program was running on your commlink, and you did not lose your connection to it.

Your connection is still jammed open because nothing happened to unjam it. It lasts until the black IC crashes, and you didn't crash it.

Note that this was more trouble than you needed to go to; you could have solved this problem with Change Linked Device Mode to simply turn the satellite link off.

[ShadowDragon8685]

So, you're stuck in VR indefinitely because you got tagged by a Black Hammer that can no longer reach or affect you?

That... Seems unlikely. It also seems like it would be the perfect way to murder someone - find him, tag him with Black Hammer (thus trapping him in VR) and then log off so he can't attack you. He'll be trapped in the Matrix, effectively a ghost in the machine, while his body withers and dies.

[HaxDBeheader]

So, you're stuck in VR indefinitely because you got tagged by a Black Hammer that can no longer reach or affect you?

That... Seems unlikely. It also seems like it would be the perfect way to murder someone - find him, tag him with Black Hammer (thus trapping him in VR) and then log off so he can't attack you. He'll be trapped in the Matrix, effectively a ghost in the machine, while his body withers and dies.

I would presume that the black hammer keeps running: it has partially infected your commlink (thus jammed open) and keeps executing its last command. On the upside it is running without a hacker helping it so it is effectively used by an agent rating 0.

[Yerameyahu]

That sounds pretty voodoo, which is to be expected for a weird situation like this. :/ I'm honestly not even sure how Black IC jams a connection in the first place? I don't know if there's a reason to go with something like 'partially infecting' the commlink. The program is definitely gone when the connection is lost, so we'd have to assume it gave some kind of command? As admin of your own link, you should be able to take an Action and remove that, possibly after having to find it? This is all novel territory, though, because the rules AFAIK have nothing about doing so.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Yeah, Black Hammer has always been kind of voodoo that way. You'd think that like, 24 years after Black Hammer was first introduced and a revolution in computing, the Black Hammer of today should have little to nothing in common with the Black Hammer that first came out of Lone Star's black labs. You'd certainly think that by now, someone would have come up with a countermeasure to the "lol you can't jack out, now stay there and get your brains fried; no switching your interface mode, either, bitch" bullshit.

It's just a way of making Black Hammer/Blackout extra voodoo, their whole "you get to jam open the connection" bonus. I mean, it's not like the Sammie gets a gun that roots the target to the spot so they're unable to flee, either.

(I mean, in addition to the normal effects. There are ways to stop someone from fleeing, but they're extra effort.)

[Yerameyahu]

It's not that it doesn't make sense for a node's defense (just 'don't allow X to log off'). It doesn't make sense as a *remote* effect, when it's not your node. Also, you'd think any node could do this to remote users, Black IC or not.

[ShadowDragon8685]

It's not that it doesn't make sense for a node's defense (just 'don't allow X to log off'). It doesn't make sense as a *remote* effect, when it's not your node. Also, you'd think any node could do this to remote users, Black IC or not.

I'm not actually sure how you could stop someone from logging off. They just stop accepting input from your node - what're you gonna do? Jack shit, that's what. It stops them from doing anything to you, but stops you from doing anything to them, too.

[SpellBinder]

I've always thought that in order for the jamming of a Black Hammer/Blackout program to work (regardless of how it's supposed to actually work, outside of game rules) the attacking icon had to remain in the same node as the victim. Once the attacker is gone, you're no longer affected.

[UmaroVI]

Black IC never really does worse than dumpshock you. You can always just jam yourself offline or whatever and take the dumpshock, unless you're being dumb and used some way of getting online that you can't cut off.

Note that in this situation, your connection being jammed open isn't the same as being stuck forever; it just means you must take dumpshock to log out. You can just keep on trying the Jack Out action till you make the roll, or turn off your commlink or jam yourself or any number of other ways of doing so.

[HaxDBeheader]

Black IC never really does worse than dumpshock you. You can always just jam yourself offline or whatever and take the dumpshock, unless you're being dumb and used some way of getting online that you can't cut off.

Note that in this situation, your connection being jammed open isn't the same as being stuck forever; it just means you must take dumpshock to log out. You can just keep on trying the Jack Out action till you make the roll, or turn off your commlink or jam yourself or any number of other ways of doing so.

Yeah, my interpretation was compatible with this. Since the "locked online" portion doesn't kick in until it successfully hits you I presumed that reflected it partially infecting your commlink in a specific way versus a normal attack which would partially corrupt your system in a general way. The extra difficulty in manually jacking out would be a targeted side effect of the physiological effects of the Black IC/Hammer.

The thing that I'm mildly surprised about is that this "locked online" isn't a separable feature for any program that corrupts your commlink system (ie normal attack). Note that the lack of effecting your physical body would mean you would have an easier time manually jacking out (off switch or unplug). This would still help keep you online longer while trace IC/programs are run and you're unable to block them because you're busy defending yourself.

Hmmm...I'm getting ideas for a new house rule program option...Wonder who I'll get to introduce it into my game world: corp or uber-hacker? Maybe a thuroughly scorched barely sane technomancer...or sprite/AI? So many possibilities

[HaxDBeheader]

This reminds me: does anyone know if there is an attack program option that infects your system with virii and/or worms, especially if it is crashed? It just seems like the logical next step.

Maybe I should open a new thread on this.

[HaxDBeheader]

This reminds me: does anyone know if there is an attack program option that infects your system with virii and/or worms, especially if it is crashed? It just seems like the logical next step.

Maybe I should open a new thread on this.

Think: corp crashes your icon; infects it with a worm that calls home when you turn it on again; and/or provides a backdoor to your system for anyone with the right code...

I like the idea but it would take some serious thought to not become unbalancing.

[Yerameyahu]

Viruses and worms (malware) are a separate thing in SR4. You could possibly make an attack/malware suite (or load them both into IC)? I forget the precise suite rules.

[Warlordtheft]

I would presume that the black hammer keeps running: it has partially infected your commlink (thus jammed open) and keeps executing its last command. On the upside it is running without a hacker helping it so it is effectively used by an agent rating 0.

ANd it wouldn't take that long to crash the persona/agent that is wielding the black hammer.

[Yerameyahu]

But no one is wielding it, they're gone. Unless they loaded the program (and/or IC) onto your commlink, everything vanishes. :/

[hobgoblin]

Viruses and worms (malware) are a separate thing in SR4. You could possibly make an attack/malware suite (or load them both into IC)? I forget the precise suite rules.

Yea, that is one of the things expressly left out of the malware rules. There is no way to infect by way of a program. So you can't "love tap" someone with a slow or similar and use that to also infect them with something nasty that takes effect a few seconds later (at least not in any targeted fashion. You could in theory swing a virus infected program around inside a node and hope it may affect some other persona's programs). As for worms, they are basically custom agents with their "agent smith" blocker ripped out.

[hobgoblin]

But no one is wielding it, they're gone. Unless they loaded the program (and/or IC) onto your commlink, everything vanishes. :/

The only thing that would keep things going is if a agent did the actual attack, after being loaded onto the nexus node. It would still loose the control subscription to the attackers persona tho.

[Yerameyahu]

Right.

As for how and why the Black IC jam-open thing works… man, I just dunno now. I think the safest assumption is that the IC actively messes with your attempts, or (because it's on home turf) makes the node refuse you.

[HaxDBeheader]

Right.

As for how and why the Black IC jam-open thing works… man, I just dunno now. I think the safest assumption is that the IC actively messes with your attempts, or (because it's on home turf) makes the node refuse you.

Since normal attack programs explicitly corrupt your commlink System program (trying to crash it) and Black Hammer/IC don't jam-open until they successfully hit you I had always interpreted it as a specific targeted special effect of commlink System corruption. It is both consistent with the explicit and implicit description of what happens with both normal and black attacks.

If the Black IC/Hammer was influencing the node rather than the commlink itself it wouldn't need to hit you to jam-open your connection. The specific chain of "successful hit = jam-open" means that it is an effect imposed upon your commlink.

[HaxDBeheader]

Since normal attack programs explicitly corrupt your commlink System program (trying to crash it) and Black Hammer/IC don't jam-open until they successfully hit you I had always interpreted it as a specific targeted special effect of commlink System corruption. It is both consistent with the explicit and implicit description of what happens with both normal and black attacks.

If the Black IC/Hammer was influencing the node rather than the commlink itself it wouldn't need to hit you to jam-open your connection. The specific chain of "successful hit = jam-open" means that it is an effect imposed upon your commlink.

As a further example: it is completely viable that Black IC could hit 25 hackers once each and every single one of them would have their matrix links jammed open. It could be functionally ignoring 24 of them and they would all still be jammed open.

[Bigity]

Dumpshock would be my vote. It has been the failsafe against Black IC for all editions. Someone else yanks the cord.

[HaxDBeheader]

As a further example: it is completely viable that Black IC could hit 25 hackers once each and every single one of them would have their matrix links jammed open. It could be functionally ignoring 24 of them and they would all still be jammed open.

Inversely, you could stroll into an ultraviolet node with a disposable commlink (presumably to commit suicide) and yet you would not be jammed until the Black IC successfully hit you. If through some miracle it missed you 5 times in a row you could come to your senses and casually unplug. Node control is irrelevant; commlink stats compared to Black IC rating is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is whether the Black IC has successfully hit your persona.

[Seriously Mike]

Dumpshock would be my vote. It has been the failsafe against Black IC for all editions. Someone else yanks the cord.

Yep, pretty much. I'd even say that Black IC is launched from a different node, so once the connection is severed it has no way to reach you. However, due to the connection being severed, you suffer from dumpshock too.