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> Question about turning a magician into a vampire
The Wrestling Tr...
post Mar 30 2012, 01:23 PM
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Hi everyone!

I was looking at the rules of becoming a vampire through the HMHVV-I Infection. There it says that a character falls into a coma after getting infected and then turns into the appropriate infected form. After the transformation he has 1 Essence and 1 Magic Attribute.

So what happens if I, lets say a char with magic 6, and he turns into a vampire?
Will he still be a magician? will he also lose his magic 6 attribute and has to buy it with karma back to 6? Does he remember his spells? What happens to Initiate grades?

So many questions but I found no answer to them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Hope you guys can clear that stuff for me!
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Neraph
post Mar 30 2012, 03:38 PM
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1) A Magic 6 Character that becomes a vampire is now a vampire magician with Magic 1.

2) Yes.

3) Yes. Don't forget you can use Essence Drain to fuel your Magic.

4) Yes.

5) Interesting question. I would say he doesn't lose any but cannot Initiate again until your Magic his higher than your Initiate Grade. The game says you can't have Initiate Grade higher than Magic but IIRC it has no rules about losing Initiate Grades if your Magic is lowered.
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Starmage21
post Mar 30 2012, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Mar 30 2012, 10:38 AM) *
1) A Magic 6 Character that becomes a vampire is now a vampire magician with Magic 1.

2) Yes.

3) Yes. Don't forget you can use Essence Drain to fuel your Magic.

4) Yes.

5) Interesting question. I would say he doesn't lose any but cannot Initiate again until your Magic his higher than your Initiate Grade. The game says you can't have Initiate Grade higher than Magic but IIRC it has no rules about losing Initiate Grades if your Magic is lowered.


The way the infected work by RAW really bones the SHIAT out of a PC character magician who is infected during play. Basically every time he loses essence, he loses a point of magic, until he hits 0 essence and falls into a coma. Technically, he's a burnout at that point unless his magic was higher than 6. Then the infection begins the transformation process and he wakes up with 1 essence, and 1 magic. Since he never lost the magician quality, all of his initiations are there, and his ability to cast spells are "back". Now he must begin the arduous process of buying his magic back up with Karma.

IIRC someone who had a hand in the design of the infected rules said something by the way of meaning that you shouldnt bone your magician PCs so hard because they wanted to keep their character after infection, and they wake up with full magic, but must do everything they can do get their essence back up to the proper amount to support their magic. I cant remember where I heard it, or if they changed the rules a bit in Running Wild.
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Mirilion
post Mar 30 2012, 04:12 PM
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Page 77 of the runner's companion.

An infected with essence loss has a [maximum magic attribute] of [current essence]+[initiation rank]
If [maximum magic attribute] is lower than [magic], [magic] is lost and must be repurchased with Karma.

So if your mage has 1 essence and initiate rank 5, he doesn't lose anything.

It seems initiation rank isn't lost, otherwise that would be silly. It also says nothing about losing spells.
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Sephiroth
post Mar 30 2012, 05:12 PM
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It was adjusted in Running Wild, though.

QUOTE
HMHVV I (Ghilani vrykolakiviridae )
...
If the test fails, the character falls into a coma for (30 – Body)
hours as his body transforms. When the character awakens, he has
lost all Resonance and technomancer abilities, has acquired the appropriate
Infected (Banshee, Dzoo-noo-qua, Goblin, Nosferatu,
Vampire, or Wendigo) Quality (see Positive Infected Qualities,
p. 79, Runner’s Companion), and has an Essence of 1 and Magic of
1 (or retains her own Magic attribute, if higher) .


That's on pg 68 of Running Wild.
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darthmord
post Mar 30 2012, 07:44 PM
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It sounds as though the conversion rules were written for a no Magic character / NPC becoming an Infected. Thus they gain the Magic 1.

It would also make sense to NOT bone your PC(s) as they do have to pay for that Infected quality with karma. Paying for that and to raise Magic back up is rather unfair even with the advantages of being Infected.
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Starmage21
post Mar 30 2012, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Mar 30 2012, 12:12 PM) *
It was adjusted in Running Wild, though.



That's on pg 68 of Running Wild.


Thanks, Seph. That certainly helps clear up the rules as intended.
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snowRaven
post Mar 30 2012, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Mar 30 2012, 07:12 PM) *
It was adjusted in Running Wild, though.


...except that may contradict the rules of magic being lost if maximum magic is lower than magic...by the rules, you'd be at no higher Magic than 1+Initiate Grade when you wake up as infected.

(So if you had Magic 6, and no initiate grades, you would have magic 1 when you wake up - If you had magic 6 and 4 initiate grades, you'd be at magic 5)
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Neraph
post Mar 30 2012, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (snowRaven @ Mar 30 2012, 04:12 PM) *
...except that may contradict the rules of magic being lost if maximum magic is lower than magic...by the rules, you'd be at no higher Magic than 1+Initiate Grade when you wake up as infected.

(So if you had Magic 6, and no initiate grades, you would have magic 1 when you wake up - If you had magic 6 and 4 initiate grades, you'd be at magic 5)

True. A good House-Rule would be to give a new vampire one hour to get his Essence up to where it needs to be. The Test is with like a 1 minute interval, so 1 hour is more than enough time to feed.
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tim
post Mar 31 2012, 07:57 PM
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Where does it say you go to Essence 1? As far as I can see, you just LOSE 1 Essence, not go to 1 Essence. At least thats how it is for starting off as infected from Runners Companion.

Magic and Essence
Starting Infected characters start with Essence 5 and Magic 1
during character generation. The Infected may increase their Magic
attribute with BP or Karma as any other attribute to a maximum
of 5 (+ initiate grade). Magic is used for any tests involving the
Infected’s innate powers. If an Infected character’s Magic attribute
is reduced to 0 (temporarily or permanently), it loses the use of all
its powers except Natural Weapon and Enhanced Senses, if any.

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Hamsnibit
post Mar 31 2012, 08:03 PM
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That are the starting rules for infecteds. We are dealing with an infection during gameplay here.
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tim
post Mar 31 2012, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (Hamsnibit @ Mar 31 2012, 03:03 PM) *
That are the starting rules for infecteds. We are dealing with an infection during gameplay here.

Book/Page Number?

EDIT: I just thought of this. Seeing as not all of the Infected are Born-Infected, which means that the infected quality typically would mean you were transformed, why does Starting as an infected character have a different stat adjustment than getting infected during play? That is either wrong (Pretty likely), or in definite need of a houserule if that IS how it works by RAW.
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Hamsnibit
post Mar 31 2012, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE (tim @ Mar 31 2012, 09:08 PM) *
Book/Page Number?


QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Mar 30 2012, 02:23 PM) *
I was looking at the rules of becoming a vampire through the HMHVV-I Infection. There it says that a character falls into a coma after getting infected and then turns into the appropriate infected form. After the transformation he has 1 Essence and 1 Magic Attribute.


HMHVV 1 infecteds are infertile as the virus carries over and the embryo stops aging, it has already been discussed a few times over in various threads here. p.77 RC black box

Starting characters already lived their life for a couple of years, yes setting their starting essence to 5 is a bit arbitrary but its a flowing number anyway so where exactly your problem?
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 31 2012, 08:39 PM
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Chargen is different for… basically everything. That's just the way it is. As far as I'm concerned, Infected aren't PC-valid in the first place.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 31 2012, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 31 2012, 02:39 PM) *
Chargen is different for… basically everything. That's just the way it is. As far as I'm concerned, Infected aren't PC-valid in the first place.



Cannot be said enough... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 31 2012, 09:00 PM
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But, if you do want to, the GM should be prepared to get hands-on about it. If the rules don't make sense to the GM/group, definitely tweak them. If your group thinks being drained down by a vampire *should* burn out your magic, just do that; if you think magic makes it through unscathed, just declare that it does.
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Neraph
post Apr 1 2012, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE (tim @ Mar 31 2012, 03:08 PM) *
Book/Page Number?

EDIT: I just thought of this. Seeing as not all of the Infected are Born-Infected, which means that the infected quality typically would mean you were transformed, why does Starting as an infected character have a different stat adjustment than getting infected during play? That is either wrong (Pretty likely), or in definite need of a houserule if that IS how it works by RAW.

How about the Infection In Play section of Runner's Companion, page 82? It's not "wrong" to have different stats (I think you're referencing the Essence difference) if the rules actually say chargen Infected follow the chargen rules and people who are Infected follow the In Game Infected rules.

QUOTE (Hamsnibit @ Mar 31 2012, 03:18 PM) *
HMHVV 1 infecteds are infertile as the virus carries over and the embryo stops aging, it has already been discussed a few times over in various threads here. p.77 RC black box

Starting characters already lived their life for a couple of years, yes setting their starting essence to 5 is a bit arbitrary but its a flowing number anyway so where exactly your problem?

Um.. Care to provide a page reference (in Shadowrun rules, not in Anne Rice novels or something)?

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 31 2012, 03:39 PM) *
Chargen is different for… basically everything. That's just the way it is. As far as I'm concerned, Infected aren't PC-valid in the first place.


QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 31 2012, 03:44 PM) *
Cannot be said enough... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

TJ and Yera... Opinion. I happen to greatly favor them.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 1 2012, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Mar 31 2012, 07:49 PM) *
TJ and Yera... Opinion. I happen to greatly favor them.


Neraph... Opinion. I hate them with a Passion.
However, your preferences for overpowered characters is well documented and known... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Sephiroth
post Apr 1 2012, 02:47 AM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 31 2012, 09:42 PM) *
Neraph... Opinion. I hate them with a Passion.
However, your preferences for overpowered characters is well documented and known... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That doesn't mean that yours and Yera's isn't also an opinion. Just pointing that out. Neraph is not the only one who likes/has little problem with Infected PCs.
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Yerameyahu
post Apr 1 2012, 07:33 AM
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Never said it wasn't an opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's what 'as far as I'm concerned' means.
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The Wrestling Tr...
post Apr 1 2012, 12:57 PM
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I don't see the problem in having players play an Infected character.
When things get out of Hand you can always send bounty hunters after the infected since many research lab offer great rewards for living specimen like a nosferatu (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If a player wants to powergame the shit out of it, then he has to live with the consequences of his street creds. An almighty powerfull vampire is rather fast in getting into the spotlight of mad scientists (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Lantzer
post Apr 1 2012, 01:20 PM
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Heh. A PC in the group got infected?

Pity. He was a freind. Well, nothing for it. I'm not keeping a bloodsucking inhuman leech around who knows who I am and where I live. And there's that nice bounty on them. Sounds like a win/win to off him.

Expanded version of "Never cut a deal with a dragon" : "Never trust an immortal magical creature that views you as an hors d'oeuvre."
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 1 2012, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (Lantzer @ Apr 1 2012, 06:20 AM) *
Heh. A PC in the group got infected?

Pity. He was a freind. Well, nothing for it. I'm not keeping a bloodsucking inhuman leech around who knows who I am and where I live. And there's that nice bounty on them. Sounds like a win/win to off him.

Expanded version of "Never cut a deal with a dragon" : "Never trust an immortal magical creature that views you as an hors d'oeuvre."



Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Neraph
post Apr 1 2012, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Lantzer @ Apr 1 2012, 07:20 AM) *
Heh. A PC in the group got infected?

Pity. He was a freind. Well, nothing for it. I'm not keeping a bloodsucking inhuman leech around who knows who I am and where I live. And there's that nice bounty on them. Sounds like a win/win to off him.

Expanded version of "Never cut a deal with a dragon" : "Never trust an immortal magical creature that views you as an hors d'oeuvre."

You'd be surprised what Nutrition can do these days...
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 1 2012, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Apr 1 2012, 07:51 AM) *
You'd be surprised what Nutrition can do these days...


Absolutely Nothing for the Dietary Requirement Restriction...
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