Texas Succeeds, A thought experiment Options

[Glyph]

Yeah, I don't see the U.S. turning over any of its military hardware or transferring any of its soldiers over to a newly sovereign nation of Texas. The same would go for a lot of other federal assets. The national guard might be another story.

[Sengir]

I don't see the U.S. ever becoming a traditional dictatorship. If you're going for dystopia, emphasize the worst fears of both conservatives and liberals - a sprawling military-industrial and prison complex, and a powerful oligarchy of plutocrats and industrialists who buy and sell candidates and write their own laws. Combine that with economic policies that create economic inequality similar to that of the Great Society, along with gun control and other limits to civil liberties that people will be conditioned to accept under the guise of national security. A dystopic version of the United States would still be a democracy in name, just not in fact.

Why don't you just say "Shadowrun with gun control" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Warlordtheft]

Why don't you just say "Shadowrun with gun control" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Lest you forget, Shadowrun is full of places with gun control laws (and some places with not so much gun control). Problem is, the average game involves shadow runners..not necessarily the most law abiding types. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sengir]

Lest you forget, Shadowrun is full of places with gun control laws (and some places with not so much gun control).

OK, "UCAS as with gun control" would have been more precise, since their law still seems to be quite permissive. Of course many places on UCAS territory do restrict carrying or ownership, but IMO that's "my place, my rules" rather than "gun control" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Glyph]

Why don't you just say "Shadowrun with gun control" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Shadowrun is a different kind of dystopia, corporate feudalism. Which, to be honest, I see as a bit far-fetched. The big megacorporations generally would rather manipulate the government than take its place. It is barely plausible in the Shadowrun universe, due to multiple catastrophes severely weakening the conventional governments of the world.

[Snow_Fox]

The american Civil war started because the US would not just turn over it's assets. A place in Charlston Harbor mean anything?

[Irion]

I don't see the U.S. ever becoming a traditional dictatorship. If you're going for dystopia, emphasize the worst fears of both conservatives and liberals - a sprawling military-industrial and prison complex, and a powerful oligarchy of plutocrats and industrialists who buy and sell candidates and write their own laws. Combine that with economic policies that create economic inequality similar to that of the Great Society, along with gun control and other limits to civil liberties that people will be conditioned to accept under the guise of national security. A dystopic version of the United States would still be a democracy in name, just not in fact.

I never got the gun control part. The point beeing is, that it seems to be better to have a lot of guns on the streets if you want to establish a dictatorship.
Why? Such better press shooting armed people than unarmed people.

The second part is, that you can use militias, which are not directly linked to you, to kill any politcal opposition. You just have to prevent prosecution and prosecute any crime from the other side.

And the bloodshed in the streets allows you to pass stricter and stricter laws...

@Snow_Fox

The american Civil war started because the US would not just turn over it's assets. A place in Charlston Harbor mean anything?

It has been a bit different situation, mostly economically.

The south would have gotten all the stuff he wanted from europe, now tax free.
And he would have had a product all Europe(mostly england) wanted to buy.
The north would have lost the south as a market for his goods and would not export a lot of stuff.
So at the time it made perfect sense for the south trying to get independant and for the north wanting to prevent that.

Now I guess it is more that Texas or other southern or mid western staates can't really afford to break off.

If something like this would happen, I do not know if it would cause a war.
The US is quite federalistic. And I guess it will depend on how the current situation would be.
If the government would be seen as ineffective before, the hope for development could be greater than the fear of loss...
It is always quite hard to make such calls. A lot of stuff which happend in the last 25 years would have been deemed impossible just 5 years before it happened...

[Warlordtheft]

Also, the US is not divided geographically any more--it is more divded on idealogical grounds. People have families all across the US, some on the west coast, some on the east coast, some somewhere in between. Now taking the present day US, dropping the great ghost dance and the NAN break-ups could be another interesting setting. You could still have the mega corps, but I'd go with different ones that are more focused.

[Irion]

@Warlordtheft
The question is always how it fits with the setting. I guess for the writers the US was a bit too big.
If you do not want a game focused on empires, big nations are not a good thing to have...
You also have to get rid of the european union. It is just a major feature to be able to jump from one country into another. (Espacially for Shadowrunners...)

[Stahlseele]

succeeds with what exactly?

[Adarael]

I'd just like to point out that technically the Balkans SHADOWRUNIZED, rather than Shadowrun BALKANIZING, because Shadowrun's splitups pre-dated the Balkan crisis! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Nath]

I'd just like to point out that technically the Balkans SHADOWRUNIZED, rather than Shadowrun BALKANIZING, because Shadowrun's splitups pre-dated the Balkan crisis! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The word Balkanization actually refers to the fragmentation of the southeastern Europe with the fall of the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires after World War 1.

Or Shadowrun first edition is much older than I remembered.

[Halinn]

succeeds with what exactly?

seceding

[hobgoblin]

@Warlordtheft
The question is always how it fits with the setting. I guess for the writers the US was a bit too big.
If you do not want a game focused on empires, big nations are not a good thing to have...
You also have to get rid of the european union. It is just a major feature to be able to jump from one country into another. (Espacially for Shadowrunners...)

At times i wonder if Hardwired have been a much bigger influence on SR than Neuromancer.

Hell, Hardwired basically start out following a t-bird/high speed hovercraft jockey doing a smuggling run in a divided USA.

And this while the big corporations run it all from orbit, and you're better off paying in drugs or corporate shares than national currencies.

[Glyph]

Hardwired gave us the archetypical T-bird rigger, along with a lot of other Shadowrun staples like wired reflexes (although Williams combined wired reflexes, skillwires, and control rigs in his version). Pity the cybersnake never made it into Shadowrun.

[hobgoblin]

Well, the Oral Slasher in Augmentation seems fairly close.

hell. If some character got to use it during a solid french kiss or such, it may well be allowed to do damage with no dodge or armor for the target.