Kraken Infantry Support System, Military Drone backpack Options

[The Jopp]

The Kraken support system is a backpack with four mounted limbs with weapon mounts and additional optional equipment.
Two limbs extend out below the shoulder blades to intersect with the soldiers regular arms and help to hold equipment or simply be armed with additional weapons. The two upper arms extend up above each shoulder blade. The Kraken is usually used in addition with Military grade armors for enhanced mobility.

Ferret drone (8 modification slots.)
Limited Maneuverability (+4 Slots) (It's a backpack)
Improved Sensor Package (-1 Slot)
Additional Fueltank (Extra Battery) (-1 Slot)
Small Drone Rack (-2 Slot)
4 Full Mechanical Arms (-8 slots)
- X4 External Weapon Mounts (Armament may vary)
- X4 Retractable Climbing Claws

Standard Support Weapons Package
Ingram White Knight
Enfield GL67 Grenade Launcher
Aztechnology F3a flamethrower
Aztechnology Striker (1 Shot)

Medic Support Package
Weapon Mounts are replaced by a modular limb system and includes the following:
X2 Rating 6 Medkit
X2 Rating 6 Surgery Tools for field surgery

Engineer Support Package
Weapon mounts are replaced with the following:
X2 Welding lasers
X1 Electronics Toolkit
X1 Bomb Disposal Kit

Additional Gear
Small Recon Drone [Lockheed Optic X] Function as a spotter and recon unit for the squad
Drone pilot and gunnery soft and an enhanced sensor suite for targeting and supporting fire.

Optional Or Mission Dependant
Arm mounted Grapple Guns [5 Slots per arm]
Drone replaced with ECM System and Military grade hacking hardware

[Yerameyahu]

This again? :/ It just seems like a bunch of weapon arms in a big heavy thing you're wearing is a bad, bad idea. Everyone wants a bunch of free arms, but it doesn't seem practical, stable, etc.

[The Jopp]

This again? :/ It just seems like a bunch of weapon arms in a big heavy thing you're wearing is a bad, bad idea. Everyone wants a bunch of free arms, but it doesn't seem practical, stable, etc.

Depends on how 'big' is big, and as i wrote, you would WANT to have military grade armor with mobility enhancement. This is not for your average player, this is military grade that they MIGHT face. OTHERS have this, runners do not.

Heavy military grade armor with backpacks as parachuting drop troops would be heavy hitters that you dump in warzones, runners are seldom equipped to enter such places.

[The Jopp]

This again? :/ It just seems like a bunch of weapon arms in a big heavy thing you're wearing is a bad, bad idea. Everyone wants a bunch of free arms, but it doesn't seem practical, stable, etc.

It can be practival since the pilot software would be military grade and shoot at what the soldier tells it. Include stabilizers and additional recoil compensators and you have a fairly useful platform. Remember, the soldier does not control the arms, the tells the drone what to do.

[Manunancy]

The weapon mix seems a bit bizarre - the machinegun and grenade launcher will be redundant with the handheld weapon - something like a gyromount would seem a better choice here.

In my opinion you'd probably better off with less weapons and a good sensor package - letting the thing watch your back and cover the angles that aren't already served with the soldier's main weapon. I'd also think that using a better missile with a vertical launch would be just as effective and reliable than adding a rocket-launcher wileding arm. Probably way better for the user's balance too.

Of course it looks cool and impressive, which mans there's probably a market for the thing for those with more nuyens than common sense.

[Modular Man]

If you're going to use the Ferret, the Improved Sensor Package comes for free as it is already built in.
Personally, I'd think a ferret would be a little small. Ten centimeters per arm (as per modification rules, Body X 10) may be a little short.

Oh, I like this idea. But why wouldn't a Runner try to get one of these? I'd love one engineer kit for my rigger.

[Yerameyahu]

Oh, I misunderstood your mention of milspec armor as a light suggestion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If that's the case, then: milspec already takes articulated arms, and shouldn't this just be a new milspec mod?

[The Jopp]

If you're going to use the Ferret, the Improved Sensor Package comes for free as it is already built in.
Personally, I'd think a ferret would be a little small. Ten centimeters per arm (as per modification rules, Body X 10) may be a little short.

As usual i forget half the rules.

Ok, sensor package is included so we could use that slot for smart materials to decrease weight (soldiers like that)

Hmm, only BOD X10 centimeters. That IS a bit short. Not to mention useless. This also means that the maximum drone sized limbs you can get is 40 centimeters. I GOT IT.

Each limb is a modular limb with telescopic cyberlimb which means we add up to 1 meter in length (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) so that the soldier can fold back the arms into a convenient backpack with everything sorted until he needs it.

[KarmaInferno]

Technically, you could build a good chunk of this with the Iron Will exoskeleton already, hmm...




-k

[Tanegar]

No soldier would ever carry something whose acronym was KISS.

[KarmaInferno]

Unless they were in the KISS Army!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)




-k

[Manunancy]

No soldier would ever carry something whose acronym was KISS.

Even if the lower they are on the totem pole, the more fervently they believe in said acronym (Keep It Simple, Stupid) - which that thing definitively isn't.

There's also a bit of a problem with the whole design : say you're packing a flamethrower on the back left arm. Using it on something on the soldier's front right might get a bit tricky.

As I said,, if I had to design a fire support backpack, I'd probably use something akin to the cybernetic weapon mount (the strongest model, which can handle up to a light machine gun) and equip it with a light machingeun with an underbarell grenade launcher, then add a vetical launch missile system with one or two cells in case something big and nasty needs to be dealt with.

And one last possible problem : with each arm swinging a few kilograms of weapon around, that's going shake the soldier a bit. Not good for accuracy. You might alleviate it with some sort of anchoring system, but it won't do any good for accuracy. I also wonder how the systems cope with a prone soldier - a situation which isn't uncommon.

[Yerameyahu]

Except, like I said, the milspec armor already can have cyber weapon mounts (shoulder and articulated), right? So… problem solved?

[ShadowDragon8685]

Depends on how 'big' is big, and as i wrote, you would WANT to have military grade armor with mobility enhancement. This is not for your average player, this is military grade that they MIGHT face. OTHERS have this, runners do not.

You fail. Right here, and right now.

What OTHERS have, the Runners will GET, whether by greasing wheels, five-fingered discount, hacking a shipping manifest, or finding someone who has it, shooting him, and taking his.


Never design anything (except magical stuff for Dragons and Immortal Elves and other strictly non-player splats,) under the presumption that the runners will never get their hands on it, so you don't need to consider how they might use it if they had it. Whether it's a handgun to an orbital missile satellite, a determined enough player will get their hands on it.

[Manunancy]

Except, like I said, the milspec armor already can have cyber weapon mounts (shoulder and articulated), right? So… problem solved?

The add-on for armar seems a far safer proposition here - it also add the advantage that the armor is less likely to move around than a backpack. The only advantages of the backpack deisign here is that it's easier to ditch, but it's likely to pay being being less firmly heldto the soldier than an armor addon, and that it can have more weapons. which isn't so interesting when you take into account that the soldier already has a handlheld weapon of is own.

Where the bacpkack design would truly shine would be in capacity - things like VLS misiiles, a crateload of ammo with a conveyor belt to feed a mountedweapon, battery pack for a laser, that sort of things. Note that a laser would get rid of the recoil issue. It's also suitably cool and high tech for a great marketing campaign.

thouhg you certainly can have a mounted laser with a backpack battery - all it takes is a power feed to link the two, which tech-wise is trivialy simple.

[The Jopp]

The add-on for armar seems a far safer proposition here - it also add the advantage that the armor is less likely to move around than a backpack. The only advantages of the backpack deisign here is that it's easier to ditch, but it's likely to pay being being less firmly heldto the soldier than an armor addon, and that it can have more weapons. which isn't so interesting when you take into account that the soldier already has a handlheld weapon of is own.

Well, the main design is to be mounted on a rigid armour like a military grade armour suit, you would get penalties otherwise as you literally have two entities not moving in synch (soldier running and the drone arms might wave around throwing off his balance). The mobility upgrade of military armour would counter this.

The drone would also function as an extra set of eyes, radar and backup/bodyguard while a soldier is occupied with another task like performing surgery, repairing a vechicle or performing surveillance. It would also assist with climbing.

The arms can also function as an additional stabilizer by holding on to heavy equipment and grappling with enemies. The design also allows for soldiers to not actually carry a hand held weapon by simply designating a target or the drone and have it fire at the target, very much like a heli gunner or rigger.

[Irion]

And thats a good place to introduce the rules on: Weight limit.

You are carrying a 500 pound drone on your back but hey, what does it matter? You can swim jump and climb as good as before.

If a character overburdens herself with gear, she will suffer
encumbrance modifiers. For every 5 kilograms that you
exceed your carrying capacity, you suffer a –1 dice pool modifier
to physical actions. A character with Strength 3 (Carrying
Capacity 30) that is trudging along with 50 kilograms of equipment
will suffer a –4 dice pool modifier.
The maximum any character can carry is equal to her
Carrying Capacity x 2 (or Strength x 20 kilograms).

This rule is quite silly, because a normal human (strength 3) will have a lot of problems swimming with 30 kg dead weigth attached to him.
But as soon as you are over the limit, it does not matte if you are a troll or a pixie, 5kg give you -1...
Making it impossible to carry something heavy.
(So a strength 10 Troll is unable to carry something with 200kg (a malus of 20) but gets no malus for carrying 100kg....

This probably leads to a lot of groups just ignoring this limit and this leads to attaching drones to your back, because there is NO dowside...

A simpler rule would be to say, for example:
You get no malus for strength * 4 kg. (setting the strength 3 character at 9 kg, which seems ok to me)
If you are overburdend your malus increases whenever you overstep by 50%.
This would look like that.
Human (str 3)
up to 12kg:0
up to 18kg:1
up to 24kg:2
up to 30kg:3
up to 36kg:4
up to 42kg:5
So the human will be downgraded.
Now the Troll(str 10)
up to 40 kg:0
up to 60kg: 1
up tp 80kg:2
up to 100kg:3 (RAW 0)
up to 120kg:4 (same as RAW)
up to 140kg: 5 (RAW: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
up to 160kg: 6 (RAW: 12)
up to 180kg: 7 (RAW: 16)

[The Jopp]

And thats a good place to introduce the rules on: Weight limit.

You are carrying a 500 pound drone on your back but hey, what does it matter? You can swim jump and climb as good as before.
This probably leads to a lot of groups just ignoring this limit and this leads to attaching drones to your back, because there is NO dowside...

There is also a reason to why I picked a small drone. A large drone is the size of a motorcycle or a small car - I have a hard time seeing a GM allowing someone to strap on something like that, not to mention that a medium drone can (and often is) human sized.

I could allow the Otomo drone with a rigger cocoon because I would then rule that it would in fact no longer be a drone, but more of a motorized exosuit or rigged bodyarmor with strength enhancements (since it has mechanical arms its base STR is BOD X2).

One rule of thumb one could use for Drone encumbrance could be the following:

Reduce effective strength of character by Drone BOD and reduce individual carrying KG by used enhancement slots. So in this case we have a drone with BOD 1 and 12 used slots. A human with STR 3 would count himself as STR 2 and then reduce the total carrying weight by 12. He then would have 8 points of encumbrance points left.

Regardless of the actual rules I would also add an automatic -1 dicepool modifier for each USED point of encumbrance to any swimming test. Any normal human or soldier will not swim with 30 kilos of gear on their body unless they have to and it should impact on actions that are affected by it.

Climbing with 30 kilos of gear would go against the stamina test as your strength is continously tapped by having to lug around lots of gear.

[Irion]

@The Jopp
Well, the point is even a small drone (dog sized as far as I know) will be quite heavy. Remember it is made out of metal.

Regardless of the actual rules I would also add an automatic -1 dicepool modifier for each USED point of encumbrance to any swimming test. Any normal human or soldier will not swim with 30 kilos of gear on their body unless they have to and it should impact on actions that are affected by it.

The problem is, by the rules now a human carrying 30kg of junk around runs as fast as a naked guy.
Thats just silly in my book.

At the other side of the rainbow a troll will be immobile with with 160kg of gear. Thats just silly. Yes, he should have a hard time and yes he should get tired fast. (But not -12!)

There should be some extended rules for carrying stuff. Like you suggested influencing fatigue tests or something.

But like it is now you have to stay under strength*X kg and you are fine.

[CanRay]

Bagman, Gunner, and Helmet?

[The Jopp]

@The Jopp
Well, the point is even a small drone (dog sized as far as I know) will be quite heavy. Remember it is made out of metal.

Well, it could also be made from Plastic, Smart Materials and Kevlar with only the central core (engine and limb struts) made out of metal. A Small drone that is DOG sized could range from anything around 4 kilograms (small dog the size of a cat) and up to 60-70 kilos when we talk about large dobermans.

The problem is, by the rules now a human carrying 30kg of junk around runs as fast as a naked guy.
Thats just silly in my book.

Agree, anyone carrying something should always have a penalty towards an unencumbered human. Still, it might not be apparent on a short running distance but it should definitely be visible on Fatigue tests on a long distance runner without 30 kilos of load and someone laden down with heavy backpacks.

At the other side of the rainbow a troll will be immobile with with 160kg of gear. Thats just silly. Yes, he should have a hard time and yes he should get tired fast. (But not -12!)

I would actually ignore negative modifiers for MOST actions unless they are fatigue tests.
Dodging, acrobatics and sprinting might be affected by being overencumbered but not firing a gun - I might apply a penalty for shooting a bow or grappling in close combat.

160KG of gear on someone who MIGHT weight 320KG would be me carrying around 45 kilograms and in the military we regularely carried 30 kilograms on our backs plus uniform and then a weapon - we could walk 10 kilometers across rough terrain with not much problems - I would not have liked running or jumping alot with it though.

There should be some extended rules for carrying stuff. Like you suggested influencing fatigue tests or something.

But like it is now you have to stay under strength*X kg and you are fine.

Yea, they should separate carrying and fatigue tests. Give harder penalties to fatigue tests and only apply negative modifiers in combat to actual movements that would incur a penalty (running to cover or dodging).

Besides, what constitutes a physical action? If im in a fat suit of armour (overencumbered) would I get a negative dicepool for sitting in a car and driving with physical controls? Even if said controls is an AR assisted control system that only require me to move my fingers?

[hobgoblin]

Heh, looks like beefed up version of something i have been toying with for a number of years (a portable drone weapon platform for a hacker with no direct combat skills).

[Irion]

@The Jopp
Some games have good solution. Every talent modifies the encumberance.

For example:
Melee combat in movement restricting armor is "harder" than "just pointing a gun in one direction" in the same armor.

So for example:
For every full (2x)strength kg you are carrying around with you get one point of encoumbrance.

For example doing some arcrobatics would mean you have to apply all your encoumbrance as a negative dicepool modifier. Just shooting somebody would get -2 (or more). (So with encoumbrance 3 you would have -1 on your role) And so on...

Well, it could also be made from Plastic, Smart Materials and Kevlar with only the central core (engine and limb struts) made out of metal. A Small drone that is DOG sized could range from anything around 4 kilograms (small dog the size of a cat) and up to 60-70 kilos when we talk about large dobermans.

Depends. The problem is, that a drone still needs some stuff, which is bound to be heavy. Energy storage and so on. Thats massive stuff. My Laptop is not dogsized and not bullet proof. Still it is around 3-4 kg... (I would not say it is solid iron. A solid iron cat would be around 40-50kg after all.)

But only the weapons you try to mount on it... Well, they should be around 6-8kg and add to this amounition...

[snowRaven]

Bagman, Gunner, and Helmet?

Yes! =D

[The Jopp]

Bagman, Gunner, and Helmet?

This would be the easiest one. Just add an Agent with Personality Software and add sensor options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)