Extreme Drone Modifications, What explanations would you allow? Options

[The Jopp]

After a discussion in another thread I started to think a little outside the box in regards to explanations on HOW a modification could be justified on a drone.

Lets take the Renraku Manservant III. It’s a rather unimpressive household drone that we can rebuild into a fearsome combat armor.

You jest good sir some of you would say and others would yell MUNCHKIN to my face. Perhaps, but the rules DO allow for it regardless of how silly it could sound.

Renraku Manservant
[1 Slot] Basic Rigger Cocoon (Standard Mod)
[2 Slots] Concealed Armor
[1 Slot] Fixed Weapon Mount (Shoulder Mount)

This is now the MK II Assault Armor
It is more akin to a power armor since the drone have mechanical limbs with a strength value of 6. It has Armor 10 and the ‘driver’ has a personal armor of 20. Not to mention a weapon mount on the shoulder with a limited 90 degree firing arc. I would like to stress that this would be a most obvious vessel to travel around with.

Now, most of you would say that this would be more of a manservant with a big sack on his back as some kind of bizarre robot santa but I disagree, after all, would it be implausible that a motion assist armor like this could exist? The only thing that it is missing is an actual passenger seat and that’s where the Rigger Cocoon comes into play – it consists of a seat.

We could argue that the seat must be like a chair but this could also be a standing seat depending on the craft, in this case a walking ‘suit’ where you stand up.

One could say that it couldn’t possible carry a person as well as all the other stuff but even the Segway Terrier can have the same stuff with body 2. The only difference is that it is classified as a ‘personal mobility vehicle’ very much like say the drone wheelchair.

Would a plausible explanation be enough for most GM’s or would many of you go hardline on the fact that a player is using ‘this’ specific drone or could there be variants?

One could always go with the horseman with walker mode and get a Fuchikoma on the other hand for a heavier vessel which include an actual cockpit.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

See, for something like you are describing, I would use a flavor of Combat Armor, Probably Medium or Heavy, and modified to my liking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Or an Iron Will, as has been suggested.

[Yerameyahu]

I like you, The Jopp, and I respect the thought and effort you put into all your threads. So, I hope you don't take the fact that I'm always a voice of caution personally. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Your suggestions simply tend to be of a more mohawk flavor.

You're right to point out that people will say Rigger Cocoon doesn't create an internal passenger location… because it simply doesn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You're not getting power armor. You're also right to note that the Manservant isn't designed to carry a person (+armor, weapons, and ammo), while a PMV inherently is designed for carrying a passenger and/or cargo.

If you want power armor, those exist in SR4 (either milspec or the wacky Iron Will), so I'm never very convinced by the argument that 'it's just using the drone stats, it's actually a whole different device' (perhaps most notably used for the 'transformer motorcycle mecha' variants).

The Vehicle Variant rules also tend to get pressed into service of the these kind of ideas, but that really seems like stretching things, to me. 'Variants' should be all but identical, designed for the same role, with maybe extremely minor numerical tweaks (e.g., slightly higher Accel). They shouldn't (as they always argue) magically remove the Manservant's main limitation, or increase the Body of a drone, etc. It's the choice between a Dodge and a Ford… you just change the hood ornament.

I'm as disappointed with the lack of actual vehicle creation rules as anyone, but contorting the existing stuff never seems very satisfying. I think it's cool if someone actually stays 'in character' about the mods: what if you really did make a santa-sack drone, instead of conveniently refluffing it into power armor? It would indeed have drawbacks, but I think that kind of work is more interesting and fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Plus, then it's basically unique.

[Modular Man]

I'm sorry that I have to rain on your parade again, I really enjoy your works. Gives me great ideas.
But alas: Drone armor has a maximum of the drones body times three, which would be nine in this case. How did you get to Strength 6? Normal mechanical arms get a Strength attribute equal to the body stat of the vehicle. It may be upgraded, though.
The rigger would be tucked nicely, but if the drone itself gets shot to shreds (even 9 hardened armor can be overcome, that's entirely possible), he's bound to lay around and wait for the can opener.
It is still very nice and reasonably cheap. If not intended as real power armor, you could always skip the expensive concealed one and just add in classic metal plating. It's an obvious combat device anyway.
I'll have to get to that Fuchikoma design soon...

[Yerameyahu]

I'm not even sure the Cocooned rigger would get the vehicle armor, because he's not *in* the drone; but of course SR4 doesn't have hit locations or facings, so it's the GM deciding what to let you get away with there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Modular Man]

He doesn't really need the vehicle armor. The cocoon will do nicely (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
A barrier rating of 20 is very hard to overcome without the right can opener (laser, gauss cannon, flamethrower, elemental spells).

[The Jopp]

I'm sorry that I have to rain on your parade again, I really enjoy your works. Gives me great ideas.
But alas: Drone armor has a maximum of the drones body times three, which would be nine in this case. How did you get to Strength 6? Normal mechanical arms get a Strength attribute equal to the body stat of the vehicle. It may be upgraded, though.
The rigger would be tucked nicely, but if the drone itself gets shot to shreds (even 9 hardened armor can be overcome, that's entirely possible), he's bound to lay around and wait for the can opener.
It is still very nice and reasonably cheap. If not intended as real power armor, you could always skip the expensive concealed one and just add in classic metal plating. It's an obvious combat device anyway.
I'll have to get to that Fuchikoma design soon...

Yea, i realized that I had fudged some of the rules. For some reason I was under the impression that it was BOD x2 for limb strength.

Well, yea. It is not a power armour and certainly no space marine but a rather weak motion assist armor with strong personal protection.

The Fuchikoma design is rather simple, but slow.

Take the Horseman design with mechanical arms and give it walker mode. I would use the 'similar models' rules to change its top speed by +20% so that it isnt TOO slow (just say it is the Japanese Fuchikoma model) I think you get to 48 meters per combat turn. You can then (with GM permission) install a few cybergun SMG's in the arms and perhaps a few grapple guns. Install a rigger cocoon for the protection of the driver and some concealed armor.

[The Jopp]

I'm not even sure the Cocooned rigger would get the vehicle armor, because he's not *in* the drone; but of course SR4 doesn't have hit locations or facings, so it's the GM deciding what to let you get away with there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Jeesus, of course. The armour would be two different things. Any damage to the drone would only use the drone armour but the driver in the 'suit' would roll his damage separately.

This means that the suit might very well be shot to scrap while the driver survives.

I would actually require two separate damage resists because of how exposed the driver would be as the cocoon would be so very visible and not hidden 'inside' the vehicle.

If a DV10 hits the drone/suit the drone would resist with BOD 3 and armor 9 and the driver would resist with BOD and armor 20.

[The Jopp]

I like you, The Jopp, and I respect the thought and effort you put into all your threads. So, I hope you don't take the fact that I'm always a voice of caution personally. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Your suggestions simply tend to be of a more mohawk flavor.

Well, i like the possibility of the Mohawk gameplay and what I really want to see is the possibility to use attributes for one vehicle but apply in a different trade. Its too easy to be caught up in the description of a vehicle and say that it can only do ONE thing but modifications can change it into something else entirely depending upon the designers vision of what it would be.

I like to be inventive with what I have and create things not usually envisioned by the designers and If a plausible explanation can be given I thing a creation should be given a change.

Still, a drone/motion assist armour like this might be overpowered depending on how it is used, another example could be to use the drone wheelchair with walker mode instead as that could be something for elderly people to use - a good example is this one
Robotic Support but with legs.

[Yerameyahu]

Haha, well just checking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Your OP certainly gives the opposite impression, as you suggest that the actual result is 'power armor' (as opposed to robo-santa) and is something that 'could exist' (as opposed to a home-modified Manservant).

I think that radical *home* modifications of things is very SR. If some runner puts an LTA gasbag, and arms with guns, on his car in his secret garage, neat (to choose an example at random). It's when people use the mod rules and say the result is actually a normal, mass-market thing that I get skeptical, you know? I think if you're adding something like *that* to the SR world—assuming it's a good idea in the first place—you should just make the stats, not mod an existing *unrelated* thing.

I think the Horseman ideas are fully reasonable: it's designed to carry people and cargo. The Manservant really isn't, so I'm less convinced that even the santa-sack version is feasible (though maybe with major 'weight' penalties). I'm also not convinced that Rigger Cocoon can be added to anything that doesn't already have passenger or at *least* cargo space, in the first place. Again, this is usually a case of 'the rules don't say I can't', but common sense might be different.

[KarmaInferno]

Jeez, and I tought I was pushing it when I put a pixie-sized rigger cocoon on a Manservant, with an extra mod slot for Special Storage/Machinery to represent an appropriate sized passenger space.



-k

[Yerameyahu]

You were! There's no room inside the thing. At best, you're getting a weird bubble thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In the grand tradition of bubble-cockpits on mecha!

[Neraph]

I always envisioned the Renraku Manservant a little like Sonny from I, Robot, and the reason for what I refer to as "Senior Citizen Syndrome" is because of something a whole lot nastier than the end of that movie. If you've read my Vehicles, Drones, and Agents thread I've done a bit of modding of the Manservant myself, although I did not try to crawl inside one.

And yes, the Iron Will would serve as much better power armor. It's from Attitude. For fun you can try and say that you get into it and then put Heavy MilSpec armor on the Iron Will, as you in the Iron Will makes you roughly the same sizes and weights as a troll (unless you're a troll in an Iron Will...). Or you can put a Renraku Manservant in an Iron Will, and then put it in a car, and then that car in a tractor trailer, and that tractor trailer on a boat...