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> Money, money, money, money!, Starting with it
scarius
post Apr 6 2012, 12:40 PM
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Hello dumpshockers, how are we all today/tonight (depending upon geographical location)?

I was wondering (as did another couple of my players) how did one start with lots of money?
I care not for the xD6 depending upon social standing (location of "home"), I was after something in the thousands (or high hundreds).
I thought that I would come to the brains trust before I just went and home ruled something.

Thanks,
Scarius
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ShadowDragon8685
post Apr 6 2012, 12:52 PM
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I say it's simple.

You want to start with money at character generation? Pay 1 build point, get 5,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) or other-currency equivalent sum, deposited in the bank or other financial institution account of your choice, stored on a credstick of your choice, or in hard currency format stored in the location of your choice, or else an equivalent sum of precious metals, negotiable bearer-bonds, or other similar easily-liquidated negotiable asset, stored however you can imagine.
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Kolinho
post Apr 6 2012, 01:00 PM
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You after a backstory?

(spoiler wrapped in case any of my group are reading this)

[ Spoiler ]


The opportunities are as endless as your imagination.
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scarius
post Apr 6 2012, 01:06 PM
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Cheers guys, I was going to go with something like that but I just wanted to see if there was an actual ruling on the case
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Thanee
post Apr 6 2012, 01:07 PM
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If you have High Lifestyle, you start the game with pretty decent money (even more than you paid for during character generation).

Pay 10,000¥ from your Resources for High Lifestyle.
Pay an extra 1,200¥ to gain +12 on the starting income roll.

You start the game with 4d6+12 x 500¥ (13,000¥ on average).

Bye
Thanee
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Halinn
post Apr 6 2012, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Apr 6 2012, 03:07 PM) *
If you have High Lifestyle, you start the game with pretty decent money (even more than you paid for during character generation).

Pay 10,000¥ from your Resources for High Lifestyle.
Pay an extra 1,200¥ to gain +12 on the starting income roll.

You start the game with 4d6+12 x 500¥ (26,000¥ on average).

Bye
Thanee

13000 on average, not 26000.
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scarius
post Apr 6 2012, 02:18 PM
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How does the paying to get a bonus to your starting roll work?
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Redjack
post Apr 6 2012, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE (sr4a @ pg88-89)
If you have any nuyen left over from Resources, you may add +1 to the dice roll for every 100¥ left over, up to a maximum of 3 times the number of dice rolled (in other words, you may add up to half the maximum possible dice result).
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Yerameyahu
post Apr 6 2012, 03:26 PM
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That stuff is all pretty janky. I agree with ShadowDragon: if you want liquid assets, convince the GM to let you blow your BP on liquid assets. It's not really RAW, but it's not really un-RAW… and it's hard to imagine many abuses, except trading time for availability. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Thanee
post Apr 6 2012, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (Halinn @ Apr 6 2012, 03:41 PM) *
13000 on average, not 26000.


Erm... Math SPU malfunction? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You are right, of course.

Bye
Thanee
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Lantzer
post Apr 6 2012, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Apr 6 2012, 04:26 PM) *
That stuff is all pretty janky. I agree with ShadowDragon: if you want liquid assets, convince the GM to let you blow your BP on liquid assets. It's not really RAW, but it's not really un-RAW… and it's hard to imagine many abuses, except trading time for availability. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Oh, there are two simple reasons for wanting to carry LOTS of cash out of Character generation:

1) Adapsin. It's not available when making a character, costs 30k on it's own, and is only useful if getting at least 2 Essence worth of cyber after treatment. For the typical street sam, it is utterly useless. They haven't the money or the unused essence to make proper use of it in play. A few cyber-adepts have uses for it, however.

2) Gear with availability above starting limits. You want something really nifty for your character, but it's not on the "allowed" list for startign characters. So you port money into the game and buy it a week later.

Both cases are simply attempts to get around the restrictions for character generation.
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Yerameyahu
post Apr 6 2012, 08:31 PM
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That's what I'm saying: in both cases, you're trading in-game time to get around availability… which seems fair. You're also paying surgery and hospitalization, and Lifestyle, etc. Adapsin, specifically, requires tons of cyber *after* game starts.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Apr 6 2012, 09:06 PM
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I just make Adapsin available at character generation. It rolled out in 2070, and it's now 2072/2073. It's so far behind the SOTA by now that it might as well be first-generation cybereyes.

I kid, but frankly, that whole "Adapsin isn't available at character generation" thing annoys me. Either let people buy a 10% blanket essence reduction on cybertechnology with nuyen, or don't, no flimflammy, wishwashy, bullshit half-measures.
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Eratosthenes
post Apr 7 2012, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE (Lantzer @ Apr 6 2012, 03:05 PM) *
1) Adapsin. It's not available when making a character, costs 30k on it's own, and is only useful if getting at least 2 Essence worth of cyber after treatment. For the typical street sam, it is utterly useless. They haven't the money or the unused essence to make proper use of it in play. A few cyber-adepts have uses for it, however.


Why not just get the Adapsin treatment prior to upgrading your basic 'ware to alpha/beta/delta? Wouldn't the bonus apply to said new 'ware, thus not eating up as much of your essence hole?

Just saying that there's still a use for it, for the sam who wants to upgrade.

---

The other reason to bring lots of cash into game is to buy whatever tools you need (skillsofts, special gear, etc.) for that first run. Having a large amount of cash on hand can actually obviate some basic first runs.
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Lantzer
post Apr 7 2012, 02:28 AM
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QUOTE (Eratosthenes @ Apr 7 2012, 02:24 AM) *
Why not just get the Adapsin treatment prior to upgrading your basic 'ware to alpha/beta/delta? Wouldn't the bonus apply to said new 'ware, thus not eating up as much of your essence hole?

Just saying that there's still a use for it, for the sam who wants to upgrade.


Most Sam's I've seen never had the cash to upgrade their most essence-intensive 'ware.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Apr 7 2012, 02:55 AM
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QUOTE (Lantzer @ Apr 6 2012, 10:28 PM) *
Most Sam's I've seen never had the cash to upgrade their most essence-intensive 'ware.


Because the game is extremely stingy with it, for some reason, having Johnsons hiring people with a hundred and fifty thousand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth of cyberware and trying to get away with paying them only 2,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to take a week and commit a dozen felonies in five different jurisdictions.
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Psikerlord
post Apr 7 2012, 03:08 AM
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What is Adapsim?
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Eratosthenes
post Apr 7 2012, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Apr 6 2012, 11:08 PM) *
What is Adapsim?


Augmentation, pg. 90.

QUOTE (Augmentation @ pg. 90)
Adapsin: Adapsin is a catchphrase for two proteins that can reduce the impact of non-biological implants to an organism. True adapsin is an immunoprotein that limits bio-stress upon implantation of cybernetics by down-regulating inflammatory response. The second protein produces a secreted polysaccharide that coats the implant with a bio-film, making the body believe that it is a normal organ, thus limiting xeno-rejection and immune response in the long term.

Adapsin reduces the Essence cost of implanting cyberware (but not bioware) by 10% (round normally) if the subject has previously undergone adapsin EPE treatment. This reduction is in addition to reductions from alpha-, beta- or delta-grade cyberware. Adapsin is new to the market in 2070 and should not be available at character creation.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Apr 7 2012, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Apr 6 2012, 10:08 PM) *
What is Adapsim?


A 0.2 Essence, 30,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) genetic therapy treatment that gives you a blanket 10% Essence cost reduction on cyberware.

Err, yeah. What Eratosthenes said.
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Tanegar
post Apr 7 2012, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Apr 6 2012, 09:55 PM) *
Because the game is extremely stingy with it, for some reason, having Johnsons hiring people with a hundred and fifty thousand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth of cyberware and trying to get away with paying them only 2,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to take a week and commit a dozen felonies in five different jurisdictions.

I coulda sworn I read somewhere that the more-or-less "standard" rate for a team of starting PCs was 5,000 nuyen per person, for a low-risk job.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Apr 7 2012, 03:38 AM
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Perhaps, but I'd think that early adventures would want to be more generous, not less, so players can shore up holes in their character sheets, before you start making them pinch pennies. Yet, On the Run, ostensibly a low-risk job, has the Johnson pay 10,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . For a five-man band, that equates to 2,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) apiece. No wonder the wisdom of the old-hat shadowrun player in my group is to steal literally everything that isn't nailed down, and bring a claw hammer for the things that are (a wrench for the things bolted down/cutting torch for the things welded down, etcetera.) He even took a Tanamous contact specifically so he'd have a way to make money off the corpses of anybody they have to kill.


That's the behavior of someone who is absolutely convinced he needs every scrap of cash he can get.
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Angelone
post Apr 7 2012, 03:39 AM
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Published adventures tend to low-ball the characters, you'll get a lot of what ShadowDragon8685 is saying. Then you'll have the odd well paying job where things are simple.
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Psikerlord
post Apr 7 2012, 11:11 AM
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Hey thanks Erat & SD for answering my Q on Adapsim.

Yeah we seem to get jobs that pay at least 10,000 per runner, not per team. And we still look for ways to make extra cash every module..
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ShadowDragon8685
post Apr 7 2012, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Apr 7 2012, 06:11 AM) *
Hey thanks Erat & SD for answering my Q on Adapsim.

Yeah we seem to get jobs that pay at least 10,000 per runner, not per team. And we still look for ways to make extra cash every module..


I don't blame you. When you're barely making the money to keep making payments on your Middle lifestye and trying to decide whether or not to try spoofing some or all of your lifestyle costs in order to have money to buy ammo, anything going wrong - as often happens in Shadowrun - can put you in trouble with no bolt-holes or safehouses to run to, at which point you're basically on the run for your life and dodging enforcers at every street corner.

As it says in my sig, Runners aren't going to commit multiple felonies than they could get by carjacking a Ford Americar (Honda Spirit in 2072, I guess,) and having the group troll hock it for 20% to the nearest chop-shop. If you're asking them to commit dozens of felonies, you'd better be willing to pony up.
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Midas
post Apr 9 2012, 06:00 AM
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While I think 2,000 new yen/PC/run is a little too low for anything other than a straightforward milk run that can be accomplished with minimal fuss, I am not the sort of GM who panders to PCs who won't get out of bed for anything less than 10,000.

I pay around 5,000/runner for starting jobs, with the pay and risk increasing to 20,000/runner and beyond as the PCs establish a reputation. In my game Grand Theft Shadowrun has its own problems (gangs and organized crime getting pissed off about you cutting into their territory, not to mention the fact chop shops never pay more than 10% a vehicle's value on account of it being hot, requiring an overhaul to remove stealth RFIDs etc).

I guess it all depends on the playstyle and PC overheads: for example, if you play a game where burning your fake SIN every mission is de rigeur, that cost should be factored into the payoff. In my games, R4+ fake SINs won't have to be burned very often if at all (unless the PCs do something stupid and get arrested or whatever).

As to the OP's question, I wouldn't allow someone to buy liquid assets during CharGen to use in-game, but that's just me ...
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