Attacking with two weapons at once? Options

[tim]

How exactly do you figure out what your pool is if you are fighting with two weapons?

As an example, what would your pool with each weapon end up as if this was what you had: Automatics 7 +2 (Specialization: SMGs), Agility 15, and enough recoil comp to negate all recoil you might suffer?

Would there be anything else you could do to up your bonuses with the gun, aside from Smartlink/Laser sight since those cancel out when firing two weapons?

[Stahlseele]

Attribute+Skill. Divide by Number of Weapons.
Add applicable Modifiers. Call it a Day. Done.

[tim]

Attribute+Skill. Divide by Number of Weapons.
Add applicable Modifiers. Call it a Day. Done.

What, exactly, would be a modifier in this case? Could you give an example?

[Stahlseele]

Reach for close combat weapons for example.
Personalized Grip for Guns for example.

[tim]

Reach for close combat weapons for example.
Personalized Grip for Guns for example.

Thank you. Anything else you can think of that might apply as a modifier?

[Stahlseele]

Basically anything that would give you a + in your dice pool to use a certain skill. Aside from Smartlink, because that does not work with 2 weapons . . because . . magic!
Firing Mode and Ammo and Recoil Compensation for Guns for example.
Close Combat does not have that many additives to begin with, basically just Reach and Personalized Grip i guess.

And yes, Specializations get added AFTER the Pool-Split if i remember correctly.
So Agility of 7, Skill of 4(+2) means you are at 11. Divide by Two and round down.
You are now at 5 Dice per weapon. Add Specialization. 7 Dice. And so on and so on.

[tim]

Basically anything that would give you a + in your dice pool to use a certain skill. Aside from Smartlink, because that does not work with 2 weapons . . because . . magic!
Firing Mode and Ammo and Recoil Compensation for Guns for example.
Close Combat does not have that many additives to begin with, basically just Reach and Personalized Grip i guess.

Oh, just noticed I never specified if this was guns of melee. This is guns, namely a heavily modded (Or rather, GOING to be heavily modded) Colt Cobra, and I want to be able to dual wield them without being screwed and having no chance to hit.

[UmaroVI]

Weapon Focus, Specialization, and Tacnet can all apply. There's a few genemods (Synch, for example) that can give modifiers. Optimized Cyberlimbs (Augmentation) can give melee combat modifiers.

[Stahlseele]

i think there was a built around here somewhere that had a quadruple SMG set-up with 11 dice per gun or so. .

[tim]

i think there was a built around here somewhere that had a quadruple SMG set-up with 11 dice per gun or so. .

Want.

[Stahlseele]

i suggest typing nartaki into the board search.
this one actually works and gives usefull results!

[UmaroVI]

Pssh, only 4?
Either be a Nartaki and surge for 2 more arms, or just surge for 4 more arms, doesn't really matter.

Use six HV-modified SMGs.
You should be able to get Agility 8 with little trouble.
Ambidexterity for no penalty to offhand shots.
Rating 4 Automatics Skillsoft with Personalized (counts as skill 4, and a +1 modifier)
Laser sight (+1)
Red Dot sight (+1)*
Tracer rounds (+2 at all ranges beyond short)
Specialization (+2)
Tacnet rating 4 run on a commlink with Optimization (Tacnet) (+5)
Synch (+1 vs. people who have already made at least one attack)


That's 12 dice, another +2 past short range, and another +1 vs. people who have already attacked once, although one of the dice is highly suspect.
You can squeeze out a bit more with Sideways (genetic infusion, very dangerous and has some serious side effects) for another +1, and debatably you can combine Overdrive on the skillsoft with the Focus reality amplifier for another +3 but that has drawbacks like whoa as well.


*This stacking with laser sight is stupid but so is this whole build.

[tim]

Pssh, only 4?
Either be a Nartaki and surge for 2 more arms, or just surge for 4 more arms, doesn't really matter.

Use six HV-modified SMGs.
You should be able to get Agility 8 with little trouble.
Ambidexterity for no penalty to offhand shots.
Rating 4 Automatics Skillsoft with Personalized (counts as skill 4, and a +1 modifier)
Laser sight (+1)
Red Dot sight (+1)*
Tracer rounds (+2 at all ranges beyond short)
Specialization (+2)
Tacnet rating 4 run on a commlink with Optimization (Tacnet) (+5)
Synch (+1 vs. people who have already made at least one attack)


That's 12 dice, another +2 past short range, and another +1 vs. people who have already attacked once, although one of the dice is highly suspect.
You can squeeze out a bit more with Sideways (genetic infusion, very dangerous and has some serious side effects) for another +1, and debatably you can combine Overdrive on the skillsoft with the Focus reality amplifier for another +3 but that has drawbacks like whoa as well.


*This stacking with laser sight is stupid but so is this whole build.

Laser Sight doesn't work when firing multiple weapons.

[UmaroVI]

Oh right. It's that Red Dot Sight doesn't get negated by using multiple weapons I was thinking of. Whoops. Make that 11 dice.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh right. It's that Red Dot Sight doesn't get negated by using multiple weapons I was thinking of. Whoops. Make that 11 dice.

Though if a Smartlink, and a Laser Sight are negated, so should a Red-Dot Sight be. It is nigh impossible to concentrate on multiple Red-Dot Sights simultaneously.

[UmaroVI]

Though if a Smartlink, and a Laser Sight are negated, so should a Red-Dot Sight be. It is nigh impossible to concentrate on multiple Red-Dot Sights simultaneously.

Yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The whole build is based on a poorly-thought-out mechanic anyways, though, so I figured I might as well list it and just make a note that it's dumb.

[Stahlseele]

so have one red, one green, one blue, one yellow.
if you can get them into 10cm of each other, pull all triggers.

[remmus]

Though if a Smartlink, and a Laser Sight are negated, so should a Red-Dot Sight be. It is nigh impossible to concentrate on multiple Red-Dot Sights simultaneously.

never gotten that, since smarlink (as I understand it) is design so that you could theoretically shoot from the hip with the accuracy of a properly aimed down the sight shot, why it doesnt work with dual guns, if there is any system in the world that could remotely make "aiming" with dual guns easier it be a smartlink

[Yerameyahu]

We had a fun thread about that last time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Medicineman]

....
And yes, Specializations get added AFTER the Pool-Split if i remember correctly.
So Agility of 7, Skill of 4(+2) means you are at 11. Divide by Two and round down.
You are now at 5 Dice per weapon. Add Specialization. 7 Dice. And so on and so on.

thats not quite right
You don't divide by Two (and certainly don't round down) you just Split the Base Pool 6-5 or 8-3 or whatever Combination you Wish

Pssh, only 4?
Either be a Nartaki and surge for 2 more arms, or just surge for 4 more arms, doesn't really matter.

Yes only 4 !
More arms only result in too small a Pool
because not only positive Modifiers (Specialisation, Tracer Ammo,etc) get added after the Splitting ,so do the negative ones (Vision ,movement,Wounds,etc)
Akimbo shooting with 3 or more Arms is only good when its a "high Noon Situation"

He who dances with 4 Feet
Medicineman

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

so have one red, one green, one blue, one yellow.
if you can get them into 10cm of each other, pull all triggers.

So what do you do when you are shooting at 4 (or 6) different targets at once? You cannot aim, you cannot use Laser or Smartlink, and Red Dot is no better than those pieced of technology. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[UmaroVI]

thats not quite right
You don't divide by Two (and certainly don't round down) you just Split the Base Pool 6-5 or 8-3 or whatever Combination you Wish


Yes only 4 !
More arms only result in too small a Pool
because not only positive Modifiers (Specialisation, Tracer Ammo,etc) get added after the Splitting ,so do the negative ones (Vision ,movement,Wounds,etc)
Akimbo shooting with 3 or more Arms is only good when its a "high Noon Situation"

He who dances with 4 Feet
Medicineman

Well, no, not really. With a base pool of 12, 4 arms is 3 dice + mods, 6 is 2 dice + mods. An entire dice, whee. Which is countered by the penalty for being shot at successive times.

[TheOOB]

Well, no, not really. With a base pool of 12, 4 arms is 3 dice + mods, 6 is 2 dice + mods. An entire dice, whee. Which is countered by the penalty for being shot at successive times.

Or you could load each gun with stick-n-shock, and potentially disable 12 guys in one turn.

[The Jopp]

Nartaki Rigger X6 Arms
Full Obvious Limb
Bulk Improvement +1
External Arm Mount X6
Gyromounts X6
Agility +3 Optimization
Skill Automatics + Spec (SMG)

Main Weapon:
P93 Praetor [Electronic Firing +200Y]
Gas Vent III
Pilot Upgrade
Underbarrel Weapon [P93 Praetor (as main weapon)
Recoil Comp per individual gun 5

Pilot Orders: Fire where gunner is firing.

Base Dicepool: 12+Spec = 2+2 Total of 4D6 per gun.

Weapon Pilot of 4 gunnery autosoft of 4. Dicepool 8

Handheld guns: 12 (includes underbarrel)
Arm mounted guns: 12 (includes underbarrel)

Fired by user: 6 (dice per gun 4)
Fired by pilots: 18 (dice per gun 8 )

Use tracer ammo to offset further recoil.

I call him Tracerhose Spiderman

[tim]

Nartaki Rigger X6 Arms
Full Obvious Limb
Bulk Improvement +1
External Arm Mount X6
Gyromounts X6
Agility +3 Optimization
Skill Automatics + Spec (SMG)

Main Weapon:
P93 Praetor [Electronic Firing +200Y]
Gas Vent III
Pilot Upgrade
Underbarrel Weapon [P93 Praetor (as main weapon)
Recoil Comp per individual gun 5

Pilot Orders: Fire where gunner is firing.

Base Dicepool: 12+Spec = 2+2 Total of 4D6 per gun.

Weapon Pilot of 4 gunnery autosoft of 4. Dicepool 8

Handheld guns: 12 (includes underbarrel)
Arm mounted guns: 12 (includes underbarrel)

Fired by user: 6 (dice per gun 4)
Fired by pilots: 18 (dice per gun 8 )

Use tracer ammo to offset further recoil.

I call him Tracerhose Spiderman

This brings up a question. Can you get extra cyberlimbs installed? As in, above your normal arms/legs. Is it, by RAW, possible to just stick like 4 extra arms on you, or give yourself a pair of cyber-spider legs?