Making a ranger...help on skills? Options

[yesferatu]

Hey guys,

So I am working on a paranormal hunter/gatherer concept for a new game and I could use some help.
He's going to be a troll - basically a ranger who gathers stuff for the magical community.

I'd like to use natural-only gear (stuff that he could make himself and can't be tracked on the matrix).
Can hand-made weapons handle being wielded by a troll?
I know "modern" knives, axes & swords would be fine and composite bows in the 2070's can go up to like 8 Strength.
Is it even possible to make something comparable, or would he need to resort to buying it? is that still armorer or would that be more Survival?

What about skills?
I'd like something like:
Traps
Natural Poisons
Live Capture

Would those be considered knowledges? I can't seem to find anything comparable in the core.
I didn't think Chemistry really fit and the Outdoors group is a little vague.

What do you think?

[Udoshi]

Check out Running Wild - it sounds like you really want the Animal Husbandry skillgroup


I'd go with an Adept. Killing Hands ability to deal stun damage, and maybe Nerve Strike seems like it would be really great for capturing animals alive.

Chemistry handles Poisons.
I think Hardware would cover more mundane traps, maybe industrial mechanic, and more elaborate ones might be Demolitions.
Live Capture is probably a knowledge skill

there's a skillgroup for outdoorsey stuff like navigation and survival.
If you're interested in gathering magical stuff, check out street magic and figure out the skills you will need for gathering natural reagents - i think there's quite a few of them depending on what kind you're after.

There is definitely troll-made gear available - see metahuman adjustments and troll tax and stuff in the main book and arsenal.

[Neraph]

Can hand-made weapons handle being wielded by a troll?
I know "modern" knives, axes & swords would be fine and composite bows in the 2070's can go up to like 8 Strength.
Is it even possible to make something comparable, or would he need to resort to buying it? is that still armorer or would that be more Survival?

1) Most weapons would still be fairly traditional (ie: "hand-made"), but especially the: claymore, katar, kris, macuitl, nodachi, spear, and tomahawk from Arsenal and the knife, sword, and katana from SR4A (just for blades - most of the blunt weapons would still be sufficiently traditional for your concept).

2) Shadowrun does not differentiate between composite (you mean compound?) bows and regular bows (composite/long), except in the possible case of the Collapsible Bow (although that can also be argued).

3) As above, the game is just fine without having to make your own, and it would be Armorer, not Survival. Now, take the cost of the weapon (sake of argument, spear - 150 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ), add Personalized Grip, halve the total, and do a few Armorer checks and you just made your own personalized (spear) for (125 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , substituting other weapon costs as desired) to get that self-made feel back.

[_Pax._]

I'd like to use natural-only gear (stuff that he could make himself and can't be tracked on the matrix).

I know "modern" knives, axes & swords would be fine and composite bows in the 2070's can go up to like 8 Strength.
Is it even possible to make something comparable, or would he need to resort to buying it? is that still armorer or would that be more Survival?

Well, if you want to use only "natural" materials, you'll be somewhat limited.

But if you're willing to add in some Chemistry know-how, and work in things like carbon-fiber composites, you should be able to pull off bows even for a full Trollish strength, with no problem.

What about skills?
I'd like something like:
Traps
Natural Poisons
Live Capture

Would those be considered knowledges? I can't seem to find anything comparable in the core.
I didn't think Chemistry really fit and the Outdoors group is a little vague.

Traps would definitely be a build-and-repair sort of thing, so, an Active skill, in the Technical category.

Or you could possibly make it a specialisation of Survival.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Traps would definitely be a build-and-repair sort of thing, so, an Active skill, in the Technical category.

Or you could possibly make it a specialisation of Survival.

I would go the Specialization route for that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Makki]

What about skills?
I'd like something like:
Traps
Natural Poisons
Live Capture

Survival includes hunting for food. In the forest this means setting up traps. You WILL need the Tracking skill to, well, track. This makes the Outdoors group very good, because you also get Navigation, so you won't get lost on your hunt.
For more sofisticated traps, there are rules for the demolitions skill to set up booby traps. You will also need the Disguise skill for this. Check.
Poisons you can buy and handle with the Chemistry skill. Applying them would be a weapons skill, like Archery, or Exotic Ranged (Blowgun). You can also harvest posion with thre Animal Husbandry group, most likely Vet Tech and Animal Handling. Check.
Live Capture would be awesome with Arsenal's Net Gun, which is also available as an underbarrel version for your Gel loaded Sports (aka Hunting) Rifle. Check.

[Tias]

I can't see it mentioned anyway, so: For gods sake, remember Knowledge: Parazoology, or you could get yourself in real trouble. Go at least 4 and specialize in your regional fauna.

Knowledge is power, particularly when you go trolling for magic megabeasts with all kinds of poisonous, spiky, mind-probing or burning shit on them.

[_Pax._]

Given the recent release of Parabotany, some skill in that might go over well, too.

[Tias]

Considering the kind of wilderness you have to enter to actually find the critters, that makes a lot of sense.

[_Pax._]

Mind you, I'm not sure "Parazology" and "Parabotany" should be separate skills from their non-Awakened versions. Specialisations, maybe: "Botany (Parabotany +2)", "Zoology (Parazoology +2)", that sort of thing.

Matter of taste, probably. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Makki]

Matter of taste, probably. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

By RAW it's a matter of threshold and dice. If you had Parabotany, your threshold would be significantly lower than rolling Botany (Parabotany +2). The more specific your knowledge skill, the lower your threshold. Easy rules. Of course, with Parabotany you woudln't know anyting about oak and hickory.

[yesferatu]

Actually...I think I found most of the rules I need.
I'm still a little unsure which drugs & toxins a player should be able to make, but that's probably up to my GM.

Booby Traps:
Building = Tech Skill + Intuition (Agility & Intuition default Arsenal pg. 95)
Hiding = Disguise + Perception vs. Victim's perception roll
These are almost all related to explosives, not say... nets or snares...I still need to figure that out.

Poisons = Chemistry + Logic (Arsenal pg. 79)
*I can't determine if Chemistry is a knowledge or an active skill. Core lists it as both and all the sample character have it as an academic knowledge.

Talismonging:
Location = Survival + Intuition (Street Magic pg. 81)
Gathering = Zoology/Botany/Metallurgy/Geology + Intuition
*I noticed that none of those are of the "para" variety. I wonder if you'd need to take 8 total skills (e.g. Zoology & Parazoology).
That might be up to my GM as well.

Does anybody think I left something out?

[_Pax._]

Poisons = Chemistry + Logic (Arsenal pg. 79)
*I can't determine if Chemistry is a knowledge or an active skill. Core lists it as both and all the sample character have it as an academic knowledge.

Both. The Knowledge skill is "theory", the active skill is "theory and practise".

[yesferatu]

So you need to take both to be able to do anything?
How do you study the "theory" of chemistry without "practicing" it?
Could you ever get anything beyond a basic understanding without spending time in a lab?
Would that work with any other academic skill?
Is there an active and an academic Botany or Biology skill?

[_Pax._]

So you need to take both to be able to do anything?

No, no no no. Notice how I said the active skill was theory AND practise.

It's one thing to know "hey, if you mix X and Y and apply heat, you get Z..." but it's another thing to know "...that means we need to go to the equipment cabinet and get items A, B, C, and D. And work under the hood, so we don't die from the fumes while it cooks." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's also one thing to be able to identify an explosive by it's residue - or smell, color, taste, whatever. It's entirely another thing to be able to actually make a batch of that explosive.

How do you study the "theory" of chemistry without "practicing" it?

All textbooks and lectures, no ACTUAL LABORATORY TIME (real nor virtual).

Is there an active and an academic Botany or Biology skill?

I would rather expect that those were both only Knowledge skills.

[yesferatu]

I can't think of another skill that is both an active and a knowledge.
So...if I need to be able to make and use toxins or drugs...what skills would I need to buy?
I'm trying to avoid the need to buy Chemistry twice.

[_Pax._]

Personally, as a GM, I'd've ruled Chemistry as JUST a Knowledge skill - alongside Botany, Zoology, and so forth.

However, in terms of RAW?

"Knowledge: Chemistry" is knowing about Chemistry;

"Active: Chemistry" is actually doing Chemistry.

[Udoshi]

No, no no no. Notice how I said the active skill was theory AND practise.

The difference is knowing how to make really simple shit like oatmeal or eggs, and theoretically understanding how you're supposed to follow the recipe and yet still making burnt food, black char, and ruining pans.

[thepatriot]

Didn't relly read the whole thread, so someone may have suggested this, but...

SR4 GM screen booklet (Contacts and Adventures) pp.9 "Parasecurit Expert" might be a good resource for such a character.