Matrix questions Options

[almost normal]

Here's how I'm going to rule it, and I think hitting it with a fresh mind this morning helped, as I'm seeing it more logically.

The AI has to realign every night, or sleep, for lack of a better term, in it's home node. To leave the home node, it needs to access the Matrix, which it does with an Access ID. This Access ID therefore is going to link back to the home node. Now while normally a matrix specialist could spoof up an Access ID and move on from there, the process to spoof an AID for an AI takes days, making this precautionary step nearly impossible. Breaking it down logically.

To leave a home node, it has to have an Access ID.
To change an AID requires a day or more's worth of time.
If a day or more's time goes by, the AI needs to go back to it's home-node to realign.

Make sense?

[Yerameyahu]

The Access ID shouldn't specially link back the home node, though. It's intrinsic to the AI itself.

[almost normal]

The Access ID shouldn't specially link back the home node, though. It's intrinsic to the AI itself.

The AID will always link to a node, which by definition, rules out it linking to the AI.

[Yerameyahu]

I said it doesn't link *specially* to the home node. It links to whatever node the AI was/is on/connecting-through. The Access ID is explicitly intrinsic to the AI (same for agents, of course). So looking for the AIs Access ID would never lead to the home node, if the AI was actually somewhere else.

[almost normal]

I said it doesn't link *specially* to the home node. It links to whatever node the AI was/is on/connecting-through. The Access ID is explicitly intrinsic to the AI (same for agents, of course). So looking for the AIs Access ID would never lead to the home node, if the AI was actually somewhere else.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't really jive with the rules. When you enter an AID, you don't go to where that AID is currently browsing, you go to it's address. After browsing through the rules, I see nothing to support a node sharing multiple AIDs. Please support your statement with direct rules references.

[Eratosthenes]

Access ID's are either 1) the network ID of whatever device is being used to generate the persona program used to access the Matrix (for meat users of the Matrix, their commlink, CHN, or Nexus), or 2) the software ID for autonomous software (which includes AI).

Thus an AI's access ID points to themselves. The Track program simply follows their trail of what nodes they were in.

Having an AI's Access ID point to their home node means that every time that AI hacks into somewhere...they're going to need a new home node. It's very difficult not to leave your Access ID behind when you hack into someplace, as the act of logging off/disconnecting leaves an entry in the Access Log of a system that can be used for a trace. And since it's difficult for AI's to change their Access ID...

[almost normal]

Having an AI's Access ID point to their home node means that every time that AI hacks into somewhere...they're going to need a new home node. It's very difficult not to leave your Access ID behind when you hack into someplace, as the act of logging off/disconnecting leaves an entry in the Access Log of a system that can be used for a trace. And since it's difficult for AI's to change their Access ID...

Define very difficult? I'm not meaning to be argumentitive, but every hacker I've seen goes straight for admin control, where they can wipe the Access Logs. Granted, my playing experience is limited to two playgroups and 2 con groups.

It's also not my intention to fuck our hacker over, it's just that at the moment, the AID is the only thing I can think of to use to attack him. If he runs into any kind of danger, it seems that he can log off (as Black ICe can't jam him), jump onto a commlink, set it's signal to 0 (or off entirely), and he's home free.

[_Pax._]

Gotta agree with Eratosthenes and Yerameyahu, here.

[Yerameyahu]

I didn't say anything about 'a node sharing multiple Access IDs'. Access IDs are your digital fingerprint, not your digital address. The AI leaves records of its Access ID on each node it travels to, routes through, or accesses. That is what Trace traces: their trail, their scent. Trace does not get the AI's Access ID and then knock on their home node. It's the same for independent agents, and it's the same for all other hackers, really: you follow the trail they left, which will lead back to the node they were using (unless they change the Access ID, which of course they will).

[_Pax._]

Define very difficult?

To change their AccesID, an AI has to make an Extended test, with an interfalof ONE DAY, not one Complex Action.

It's also not my intention to fuck our hacker over, it's just that at the moment, the AID is the only thing I can think of to use to attack him. If he runs into any kind of danger, it seems that he can log off (as Black ICe can't jam him), jump onto a commlink, set it's signal to 0 (or off entirely), and he's home free.

Aside from not being able to get stuck - which should be an uncommon experience for meat-body hackers too - that's no different from an Elf, Human, or whatever Hacker, too.

Meanwhile, as an AI, he has his own particular vulnerabilities and limitations.

[Warlordtheft]

The AID is actually more of an ICON ID rather than an IP address (which is how Almost normal is looking at it). In SR terms the device's IP address is an RTG number (IIRC-could be edition creep though).

That being said, the AI could still be tracked backed to its home node. If it moves to another node, as I recall it still has some presence in its home node.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, it's tricky in SR4 translating Access ID into RL terms like IP, MAC, etc. It's better to not try, and just go by what the book says. :/

I don't think that's the case. It 'physically leaves' the home node and moves into another node. That movement may leave access log traces (if not deleted), but there's no active 'presence' (subscription, etc.) to the home node. Theoretically, you could even move the AI to a 'working node' via a totally offline route (flash drive?). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[almost normal]

To change their AccesID, an AI has to make an Extended test, with an interfalof ONE DAY, not one Complex Action.

Sorry, let me clarify. You suggested it was very difficult not leaving your AID behind. Since in my experience, most hackers wipe such traces (like most mages wipe their astral signatures), I was asking if there was something I was missing, or clarifying if you meant the +6 threshold made it more difficult.

The AID is actually more of an ICON ID rather than an IP address (which is how Almost normal is looking at it). In SR terms the device's IP address is an RTG number (IIRC-could be edition creep though).

Unwired explicitly states that any node that accesses the Matrix must have it's own unique Access ID, which then links back to the node itself. I'd provide a quote but I'm at work, gleefully talking shadowrun instead of being productive.

[Yerameyahu]

The home node has its own Access ID (and easier to change), because it is a node. This is totally distinct from the Access ID of the AI, which is intrinsic to it.

[Eratosthenes]

Define very difficult? I'm not meaning to be argumentitive, but every hacker I've seen goes straight for admin control, where they can wipe the Access Logs. Granted, my playing experience is limited to two playgroups and 2 con groups.

It's also not my intention to fuck our hacker over, it's just that at the moment, the AID is the only thing I can think of to use to attack him. If he runs into any kind of danger, it seems that he can log off (as Black ICe can't jam him), jump onto a commlink, set it's signal to 0 (or off entirely), and he's home free.

Great. They've wiped the acces log. But when they LOG OUT/DISCONNECT, a new entry is put in the access log with their current access ID. And since they're logged out...they can't wipe the access log. See?

It's possible, using an agent or some sort of delayed command perhaps, to do so, but an Agent will never be as skilled at editing the access log as the hacker themselves. And then the Agent's access id can't be tied back to the hacker, or it's all for naught.

A meat hacker can just spoof their access ID after logging off, killing any attempts to trace it. An AI cannot.

[almost normal]

Great. They've wiped the acces log. But when they LOG OUT/DISCONNECT, a new entry is put in the access log with their current access ID. And since they're logged out...they can't wipe the access log. See?

I'm fairly certain, but not 100%, that log offs don't register Access ID.

Could a trace action be done off of pure AID?

[almost normal]

The home node has its own Access ID (and easier to change), because it is a node. This is totally distinct from the Access ID of the AI, which is intrinsic to it.

Unfortunately, that only adds more confusion. If an AI is riding in a commlink, and uses that commlink to hack, the Commlink would need an AID just to access the Matrix, and the AI already *has* an AID, meaning someone analyzing the AI could potentially see two AIDs.

This is giving me a headache.

[_Pax._]

Really, if you weren't confident you could handle the matrix, you shouldn't have allowed a PC AI.

I know _I_ won't, for exactly that reason: I'm not 100% on handling matrix issues during a game session. So, no PC AIs.

[Eratosthenes]

I'm fairly certain, but not 100%, that log offs don't register Access ID.

Could a trace action be done off of pure AID?

Well, color me purple and call me Barney.

Per Unwired, 65, it seems the Log off/Jack Out does not record Access ID.

I think I was giving too much emphasis to this (and misreading it):

If she is in a hurry, she may simply delete the file, but such ham-fisted tactics are a dead giveaway that an intrusion happened. Unless the intruder can figure out a way to delete it, her Log Out or Jack Out action will remain behind, leaving evidence of the incursion but no information on who accomplished it or what was done.

But earlier it quite clearly states that it only leaves a timestamp.

That notwithstanding, all it would take is for the AI to be identified by a node/spyder/IC once, and if their Access ID leads to their Home Node...they'll be looking for a new home node.

[almost normal]

Really, if you weren't confident you could handle the matrix, you shouldn't have allowed a PC AI.

I know _I_ won't, for exactly that reason: I'm not 100% on handling matrix issues during a game session. So, no PC AIs.

The player knows as much (or as little) about the Matrix as I do, he's also the player least likely to be a dick about abusing rules.

A meat hacker can just spoof their access ID after logging off, killing any attempts to trace it. An AI cannot.

A meat hacker can also be hit with Black ICe, jamming their connection on, an AI cannot.

[Ryu]

See AccessIDs, UW pg. 48 for nodes.

Continue to UW pg. 51 for persona AIDs. Note how the unique persona AID is based on the nodes hardware AID. Just assume the AI has a two-part address of "current node AID + unique AI AID", and stuff should work nicely.

While you are at it, look at UW pg. 53-55 on Data Exchange.

[almost normal]

Thanks Ryu, you're a game saver.

[Yerameyahu]

This is giving me a headache.

Yes. I never said they were good rules. I really don't know why independent programs have their one Access ID, honestly. What a mess.

Sounds good, Ryu.

[tete]

For one, it means that deltree *.* is harder to pull off then actively changing a face on a video feed.

Its not based on the real world its base on Tron. GM fiat and handwaving should be the norm, reserve tests for something important.

[Ryu]

Information regarding autonomous program's Access ID's is on pg. 110 of Unwired. Basically, they can only spoof their Access ID when logging onto a node. Otherwise it serves as a trail through the internet.

So a Track program would trace them back to the last time they spoofed their Access ID, when logging into a node. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics of doing that, though.

p. 110 Access IDs
Remove the following sentence from the second
paragraph:_
“An agent’s access ID may be spoofed (see Spoo ng the
Datatrail, p. 224, SR4), but only when it is being
loaded onto a node.”