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[_Pax._]

How would you represent a character who had a spouse and two children? And the spouse works, helping to support the family?

I'm using the Advanced Lifestyles rules, so I pegged it over to 3 guests,and added Perfect Room-mate. And (coupled with the Dependants negative quality) that'd be fine, for a stay-at-home spouse. But if s/he works, and earns money towards the family's bottom line ... how best to represent THAT?

[Yerameyahu]

Isn't that Roommate?

[Caadium]

Page 159 of the Runners Companion talks about Roommates. I would talk to your GM to see what he allows.

As GM I would look at things like, what is the overall lifestyle level, how much did the spouse work, etc. I would then try to figure out a number that took into account Day Job for the spouse and the extra expense of Day Care if needed. Since the Perfect Roommate does say that there are qualities that should help the PC, if the only benefit was that of the spouses income (not a trainer or contacts as suggested), that would also factor into things.

Of course, the can of worms that a runner would be opening living this type of life is something I'd greatly enjoy as a GM. My players would probably put it into the same category as Mysterious Implant as a "HELL NO" type of response.

[Warlordtheft]

Isn't that Roommate?

I'd go with dependent 5, and two dependent 15 point qualities. Yeah, I'd give the PC some control to who she/he marries but the rugrats would be waaay too much fun.

[Yerameyahu]

Dependents, yes; but I'm saying, the way you model *extra* income from the spouse is the reduced/shared Lifestyle cost effect of Roommate. That's the whole point. What is a spouse but a roommate, anyway? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Speed Wraith]

Dependents, yes; but I'm saying, the way you model *extra* income from the spouse is the reduced/shared Lifestyle cost effect of Roommate. That's the whole point. What is a spouse but a roommate, anyway? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I would agree. The PC him/herself does not have the day job, so it really isn't a negative quality that would apply.

[Yerameyahu]

Mhm. And if the spouse/dependent *doesn't* work, then no Roommate (sharing calculation) in the Lifestyle costs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Daddy's Litt...]

Then deduct day care for the children from the income- trust me I know what I am talking about here. 2 incomes BUT day care for 2 children. It is a big lump of your income. Add to the game all the fun. "You were late for meeting Mr. Johnson because of a PTA meeting?" getting into the van for the run and having to fold away the child seats? My husband and one brother both are reenactors. Seeing their gear piled in the car around the girls' seats is..surreal. Plus there is ther fun of child proofing a runner's home. Never mind knives, power outlets and tools, will the runner start keeping trigger locks on everything? Zip strips on grenades?

[VykosDarkSoul]

Then deduct day care for the children from the income- trust me I know what I am talking about here. 2 incomes BUT day care for 2 children. It is a big lump of your income. Add to the game all the fun. "You were late for meeting Mr. Johnson because of a PTA meeting?" getting into the van for the run and having to fold away the child seats? My husband and one brother both are reenactors. Seeing their gear piled in the car around the girls' seats is..surreal. Plus there is ther fun of child proofing a runner's home. Never mind knives, power outlets and tools, will the runner start keeping trigger locks on everything? Zip strips on grenades?

This comment is just so full of WIN its amazing!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I took my son to a renfair with some friends, seeing him surrounded by a Pirate, 2 knights and a "lady of the night" was....interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, the Dependent quality *says* they use up money, but doesn't actually crunch it. It's up to the GM to deduct various costs whenever appropriate, which is just begging for trouble. Instead, roll it into increased Lifestyle costs.

[VykosDarkSoul]

Runner: Honey!!!!!!.....HONEY!!!!!!!!!!
Spouse: Yes??
Runner: Where did i put the SnS?
Spouse: I dont know, did you check where you last saw it?
Runner: ::grumble:: did you check?!?!? ::yell:: Of course I did!! ::goes to check where he last saw it::
Runner: Its not there!
Spouse: did you check the kids room?
Runner: What the Hell!!! Why does little Billy have my SnS ammo?? and why is my AK-97 lying under his bed in pieces!!!!??????

[_Pax._]

Then deduct day care for the children from the income- trust me I know what I am talking about here. 2 incomes BUT day care for 2 children. It is a big lump of your income. Add to the game all the fun. "You were late for meeting Mr. Johnson because of a PTA meeting?" getting into the van for the run and having to fold away the child seats? My husband and one brother both are reenactors. Seeing their gear piled in the car around the girls' seats is..surreal. Plus there is ther fun of child proofing a runner's home. Never mind knives, power outlets and tools, will the runner start keeping trigger locks on everything? Zip strips on grenades?

I'm counting each kid as a full room-mate for purposes of lifestyle costs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As for guns and such: all kept in daddy's workshop. Which will be behind a nice strong door, secured by a high-rating maglock that uses a high-rating biometric scanner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If the kid(s) can defeat that, they won't be punished ... they'll be hired. Hehehe.

Runner: What the Hell!!! Why does little Billy have my SnS ammo?? and why is my AK-97 lying under his bed in pieces!!!!??????

Runner: And ... wait, what in the frag is ... how the hell did he manage to add a THIRD magazine ...?!? Drek, I think it'll even WORK ......... well damn, eleven or not, he's HIRED ...!!

[VykosDarkSoul]

Runner: And ... wait, what in the frag is ... how the hell did he manage to add a THIRD magazine ...?!? Drek, I think it'll even WORK ......... well damn, eleven or not, he's HIRED ...!!

Hired nothin, kids make a hell of a "wage" off us parents anyway, its not slave labor if we dont pay them, its making them work for their room n board!

[Yerameyahu]

… Unless the kids all have real jobs of their own, they're not Roommates. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They're anti-roommates.

[Daddy's Litt...]

And locked in daddy's work room mean daddy can't get to them quickly either. We joke that in the basement there are the girl's toys and daddy's toys- no guns but packs and water bottles, clothes, gas masks and the like. I don't think you want to get into too much number crunching but for lifestyle a small child does not eat as much as an adult.

[_Pax._]

Hired nothin, kids make a hell of a "wage" off us parents anyway, its not slave labor if we dont pay them, its making them work for their room n board!

Uh-huh. I line up work for him, charge 30% for room and board, plus 30% "finder's-and-management" comission, toss 30% into a savings account for the kid, and ... he gets 10%.

10% of maybe two to four thousand nuyen a month? For an eleven or twelve year old? MOOLAH SUPREMO, yes? (Plus he gets a great savings fund, so he can be sent to a proper school, and Dad can bribe the right officials to get him a REAL SIN, and Junior doesn't have to be a shadowrunner ... and even if he wants to, he'll have all that extra training to help him survive the first 2-3 years.

[Yerameyahu]

Right, DLN, but they're still anti-roommates (in the Advanced Lifestyle sense). They just might be only -0.5 instead of -1. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It depends on how much you think daycare/etc. does cost, as you mentioned. As long as the PC is being dinged significantly for that +10BP, there's wiggle room.

[CanRay]

"Who is your Daddy, and what does he do?" "He shoots people in the face for money." "Riiiiiight, your Daddy's a Shadowrunner." "He got me a pink fiberglass furniture AR-22 rifle for my sixth birthday." "... OK, he's a Shadowrunner."

[Fyndhal]

"Honey, have you seen Spike?"
"Your Emotitoy? Yeah, Susie was playing with it. Check her room."
"Dammit! That's an important piece of my gear! We're gonna have to get her her own."
"You know she only plays with it because it's 'daddies doll.' She wouldn't want one of her own."

[CanRay]

"'Scuse me Mr. Security Guard, have you seen my Mommy?" "No I haven't sweety, but we can find her together, where did you last see her?" "Behind you holding a tranq patch." *Thud* "Good girl. Now I'm going to teach you how to disable the alarm on a MagLock and we'll have Soy Cream on the way home." "YAY!!!"

[_Pax._]

You guys are a riot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[_Pax._]

… Unless the kids all have real jobs of their own, they're not Roommates. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They're anti-roommates.

Well, in terms of "cost to support", they are room-mates. Just ... freeloading room-mates, yes?

[Yerameyahu]

'Freeloading Roommates' is a contradiction for SR4, though. A Roommate (caps!) is defined as someone who shares the lifestyle cost with you. Someone who doesn't is a kind of Dependent (anti-roommate). (I say '*a* kind of' because a spouse with a job would be a low-BP Dependent as well, but it's basically true otherwise.)

[_Pax._]

Tomayto, tomahto. Room-mates always add 10% (each) to the cost of a lifestyle; they sometimes pay part of that total expense.

[Yerameyahu]

That's true, but we're specifically talking about a two-earner household with kids. That's 130% Lifestyle, divided by 2 (in the simplest possible terms; you could have different incomes, etc.). It seemed like a useful terminology distinction to add to SR4 (at the very least, for this thread), that's all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)