In-setting terms for meta-game terms Options

[silva]

Hi folks,

I need a hand in figuring out (or creating from scratch) in-setting terms for the game existing ones. Im doing a little Shadowrun hack for the game Apocalypse World, and would like to keep the vibe and style of this last one. For those who dont know AW, please take a look in this char sheet here: front, back ( more specifically the "moves" part, and how those are called).

So here is my question: what do you think the terms below would be called (or most commongly be known) for the in-setting hermetic traditions practicioners ?

Essence
Initiation
Invisibilty
Levitate
Barrier
Control Emotion
Mind Probe
Sleep
etc.

I thought about calling it by greek or latin terms. So for eg: (in Latin) "Invisibilty" would be "Evanescere", Mind Probe would be "Dic Mihi!" (Talk to me!) and and Control Emotion would be "Amore regge Senza legge" and Initiation would be "Son of Hermes" or some exoteric crap like that.

The same goes for shamanic practitioners - how would they call the below terms ?

Essence
Inititation
Summon Spirit
Astral perception
Astral projection
Astral Plane
Heal
etc

(I thought about some indian terms, but I dont know anything about it )

And for concluding: Come on guys, let your creative mojo flow! Give any me cool names you want! ("Wiremasters Shake u Body 3000" for Wired Reflexes ? XD ) or indicate some cool fonts to inspire me!

Thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Before the fun, I just wanna say that most everyone in-character probably calls these things something very close to what we call them OOC. There are certainly tons of distinctive brand names (and fun slang) for various implants and things, and I'm sure that every tradition has *special* names for initiation, etc., but I also think it very likely that they still call them by the generic labels. For gear and for magic, the reason for this is the same: it's a big world, and people have to talk about things together with common terms.

[CrystalBlue]

Essence:
--Hemetic: Mana and Astral Capacity Coefficiency rating (MACC rating)
--Shamanistic: Spirit or Ghost

Initiation:
--Hermetic: MACC Tier Level
--Shamanistic: Transendance, Awakening, Enlightenment

Drain:
--Hermetic: Drain (I think they'd be just fine with this term, as it's very appropriate)
--Shamanistic: Soul Burn, Burn

[_Pax._]

So here is my question: what do you think the terms below would be called (or most commongly be known) for the in-setting hermetic traditions practicioners ?

The same as the rulebooks call them.

[Darksong]

when in doubt, borrow heavily from Mage: the Ascension

[silva]

Hehe, nice tip. I have my 2nd edition Mage around here somewhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Before the fun, I just wanna say that most everyone in-character probably calls these things something very close to what we call them OOC. There are certainly tons of distinctive brand names (and fun slang) for various implants and things, and I'm sure that every tradition has *special* names for initiation, etc., but I also think it very likely that they still call them by the generic labels. For gear and for magic, the reason for this is the same: it's a big world, and people have to talk about things together with common terms.

Dont know. Even in things so common as martial arts traditions we have different names for the same kick (front kick in kickboxing = ap chaegi in tae kwondo = mae geri in karate = teep kick in Muay Thai = benção in capoeira), what to say of elements related to cultural beliefs and exoterical bodies of knowledge ? I concede the point that there may do exist a "unified dictionary" for such elements in some circles the same way it exists for martial arts nowadays, but I doubt it would be so disseminated to the point of being the norm. (except around the "MacMojo Schools" that is XD)

Another way to look at this point would be investigating if native indians or (indian descendents) today that still practice some form of indian traditional religion or rituals stoped calling whatever cultural elements in those are called and adopted ocidental/christian culture names and terms.

Essence:
--Hemetic: Mana and Astral Capacity Coefficiency rating (MACC rating)
--Shamanistic: Spirit or Ghost

Initiation:
--Hermetic: MACC Tier Level
--Shamanistic: Transendance, Awakening, Enlightenment

Drain:
--Hermetic: Drain (I think they'd be just fine with this term, as it's very appropriate)
--Shamanistic: Soul Burn, Burn

Thats exactly what I need. The scientificist nomenclature for Essence is particularly cool.

EDIT: on another thought, I dont know if the hermetic tradition would simply be like a "magical science" thing, since hermeticism is so full of exotherical mambo-jambo as indian beliefs ("as above, so below", "prisca theologia", "thrice great hermes", etc)

[VykosDarkSoul]

I dont know, in my mind most of these terms are what a Hermetic would use, a shamanistic on the other hand...here are a few ideas

Essence
Shamanistic: Life Force

Initiation
Shamanistic: Spirit Journey

Invisibilty
Shamanistic: Veil

thats all i got for now...lol

[VykosDarkSoul]

when in doubt, borrow heavily from Mage: the Ascension

Dont forget Dresden!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Zibik]

I can't come up with a quote right off but didn't the older editions sometimes refer to Essence as Wholeness of Body?

[Dakka Dakka]

I like having my hermetics using (milli)thaums as unit for Force.

[Darksong]

EDIT: on another thought, I dont know if the hermetic tradition would simply be like a "magical science" thing, since hermeticism is so full of exotherical mambo-jambo as indian beliefs ("as above, so below", "prisca theologia", "thrice great hermes", etc)

Yeah, I think of that sort of technomagic talk as being more chaos mage, hermetics are all about the enochian and watchtowers and secret societies.

I think that the term "Initiation" is probably similar to what a sect of a hermetic order would use, perhaps Initiation to refer to the rank in the order itself (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Orde...ture_and_grades ) and something like Gnosis or Virtue or Quality to refer to the "Magic attribute"

[Sengir]

Remember that old magic books like The Grimoire were actually supposed to be actual in-universe products...

[silva]

Remember that old magic books like The Grimoire were actually supposed to be actual in-universe products...

And how do they called these spells and concepts ?

I heard the first Virtual Realities called the programs by more plausible in-game terms (like Ono-Sendai 7 CyberKatana for example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) instead of just Attack-7. Can someone confirm ?

[Yerameyahu]

Still, people understand 'katana', 'Mattel katana', and 'longsword' to all be of the category 'sword', and refer to them that way.

[_Pax._]

Or for a more real-world example: I use AVG; others use McAffee or Norton. They're all antivirus products, and when advising friends or family on what to get in their new computer I don't say "make sure you have AVG 2012", I say "make sure you have an antivirus program".

And where "sword" is concerned: longsword, broadsword, shortsword, gladius, drusus, spatha, falcata, scimitar, katana, wakizashi, nodachi, claymore, cutlass, sabre, cavalry sabre, rapier, foil, epee, zweihander, khopesh, jian, khanda, shamsir, tulwar, kilij, pata, estoc, flamberge, katzbalger, cinquedea ... etc, etc, etc. And yet, yes: all of them are understoof to be swords.

[silva]

But software using has nothing to do with beliefs, culture and tradition. Thats why I think the martial arts analogy is more valid one - even in the globalized, google and wikipeadia permeated world of today, a Capoeira practitioner will call its techniques Martelo, Benção and Rabo de Arraia, not side-kick, front-kick and sweep.

The magical traditions of Shadowrun treat in the same kind of cultural grounds - with the awakening, native peoples got stronger because of the ties they mantained to their cultural roots and beliefs. So its just logical that practitioners of such magical traditions also use a native cultural nomenclature. In fact, the Hougan tradition already uses a lot of specific nomenclature (Casa de Santo for their "lodges", Pai de Santo or Hougan for their shamans, Loa or Orishas for the spirits, etc).

And coming back to the main purpose of the thread, I think it would be more interesting if those elements were called as a magical tradition´ insider practitioner would call them because if you look again at the character sheet (front, back) you see its a exclusisve thing - each arquetype has its own char sheet with specific nomenclature and such. It seems a purposeful aesthetical feature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jhaiisiin]

To be fair, if you want to compare the "name" of a move from one martial art to another, you need to first translate them into the same language. Saying that they're using a different term is no different than saying someone is calling it wunderbar vs awesome. They're basically the same thing, just in a different language.

Benção for instance, doesn't mean front kick. It means blessing. So yes, different term for same thing.

Sorry to nit pick.

[Blade]

EDIT: on another thought, I dont know if the hermetic tradition would simply be like a "magical science" thing, since hermeticism is so full of exotherical mambo-jambo as indian beliefs ("as above, so below", "prisca theologia", "thrice great hermes", etc)

That's what I try to tell people, but it seems like SR writers aren't aware of this and they keep on describing it as a "magical science". Or maybe hermeticism in Shadowrun has evolved to a "magical science" and what we know as "hemerticism" today is considered as old school.

[Jhaiisiin]

SR has always portrayed the "hermetic tradition" of magic to be much more thoughtful and calculated, with the shamanic tradition being more of a shoot from the hip or feel your way through the magic. Not exactly true to history, but they've stayed pretty consistent about it right up until SR4 when suddenly hermetic mages no longer needed to spend hours summoning elementals, and shamans were no longer required to have a mentor spirit (and indeed pay more for having one).

[Sengir]

And how do they called these spells and concepts ?

Same as we do. Even "Force" is used IC in a couple of books, which makes sense given that prices and legality of magical gear depend on that. How are you going to buy a new focus from wizardswold24 without a way to quantify its power?

[Eratosthenes]

But software using has nothing to do with beliefs, culture and tradition. Thats why I think the martial arts analogy is more valid one - even in the globalized, google and wikipeadia permeated world of today, a Capoeira practitioner will call its techniques Martelo, Benção and Rabo de Arraia, not side-kick, front-kick and sweep.

The magical traditions of Shadowrun treat in the same kind of cultural grounds - with the awakening, native peoples got stronger because of the ties they mantained to their cultural roots and beliefs. So its just logical that practitioners of such magical traditions also use a native cultural nomenclature. In fact, the Hougan tradition already uses a lot of specific nomenclature (Casa de Santo for their "lodges", Pai de Santo or Hougan for their shamans, Loa or Orishas for the spirits, etc).

And coming back to the main purpose of the thread, I think it would be more interesting if those elements were called as a magical tradition´ insider practitioner would call them because if you look again at the character sheet (front, back) you see its a exclusisve thing - each arquetype has its own char sheet with specific nomenclature and such. It seems a purposeful aesthetical feature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You say potato, I say apple-of-the-earth (pomme de terre).

As others said, a different language will of course have a different word; but just like the swords analogy, a front-kick is a front-kick is a front-kick. If you ask a Capoeira practitioner to perform a chute frontal, I'm sure they'll know you mean bênção. There's the colorful, cultural name, and the descriptive name, regardless of language.

Which just means there's lots of opportunity to create color in the game (Is that Attack 6 program MCT's new Duke McDevil's Hogleg program, or the Renraku Redsteel Katana program?) by creating terms and slang. It's a great opportunity for character building, too. Does that heavily cybered samurai have mostly Ares-ware cyber, or maybe a hodgepodge mix of brands?

The cultural names might be useful for separating the posers from the true practitioners, I suppose.

[Yerameyahu]

I hope that was the point I conveyed from the beginning: 'flavor' and in-group terms should and do exist… alongside generic and common terms (also necessary). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[silva]

Thnks for the input so far, guys.

Continuing this little pet project, I must ask you: is there some site/webpage containing all (or most) sayings, proverbs, quotes and popular expressions from the books and universe ? Alongside with in-game terms, this also could provide stylish names for my little system habilities. But the only one that comes to mind right now is:

"Watch your back, shoot straight, conserve ammo, and never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon"

If you remember others, please, bring it on!

[Dakka Dakka]

No proverbs, but maybe the Slang Glossary will help.

[silva]

Thats awesome, Dakka. Thanks!