Computer Illiterate, Pop my hacking cherry Options

[MADness]

I've never made a hacker before, and would like to try. What are good tips for this? I am interested in unique concepts as well as game bending/breaking tricks. Also, which is better, Technomancers or normal Hackers? And what of using adepts?

[CanRay]

Hackers are more powerful due to gear, Techomancers are "Swiss Army Knives" which are better able to adapt to changing situations.

Adepts are only good to boost skills, or hacking only in AR which is really slow. On the flipside, they also allow for alternative options to just being the Hacker. "You probably thought I was a computer nerd, didn't ya?" - Broken Arrow

I'd suggest a Hacker first, as they're less complicated (Not saying much, but it's still true.). You need a high-end CommLink (I suggest a custom one), some really good programs, and even better contacts for when you hit something you can't deal with and need a new program PDQ.

Also, get used to TLAs and use them, often.

[Aerospider]

I've never made a hacker before, and would like to try. What are good tips for this? I am interested in unique concepts as well as game bending/breaking tricks. Also, which is better, Technomancers or normal Hackers? And what of using adepts?

Pedantry - the only unique concepts available to you are those you think up yourself (and keep to yourself!)

Curiosity - why would you want to break the game?

[VykosDarkSoul]

Curiosity - why would you want to break the game?

So that you can be that much more weary and thoughtful when making a game? to be on the lookout for what you KNOW can be done? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[MADness]

So that you can be that much more weary and thoughtful when making a game? to be on the lookout for what you KNOW can be done? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This, I'll be GMing a game soon, and if my players ever make a Hacker/Technomancer, I want to be prepared for the worst case scenario.

I know the rules for making custom commlinks are in Unwired, any tips beyond RAW/RAI on the subject?
Also, any tips on specific programs, program values, and the use of Intuitive Hacking?

[Aerospider]

So that you can be that much more weary and thoughtful when making a game? to be on the lookout for what you KNOW can be done? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Lol - that threw me at first, but you meant 'wary' right? I get why people like to break systems (I do it for a living half the time) but why try to break a game you're actually playing with other people? If the hacker finds a way to hack any system with next no effort or risk to himself, do the other players find it fun? Does the hacker player? I don't get it, but maybe that's just me and my players.

[Aerospider]

... the use of Intuitive Hacking?

Spend 5 BPs to have half a dice pool instead of approximately 1 BP on a top rate program? Don't. The benefits are tiny and questionable. Not to mention that it makes no sense thematically.

[almost normal]

I'll disagree with CanRay. It's easier to make a Technomancer. They also play easier and usually have an easier time hacking into something, as they can summon a number of sprites to pull some things off that agents just can't touch.

TM's also have the advantage of receiving the almighty handwave that only magicians seem to get in SR4th. Whereas you need to know response, loads, programs, devices, which cyber to take, which to avoid, commlink compositions and all that jazz with Hackers, TM's 'just are'.

[VykosDarkSoul]

Lol - that threw me at first, but you meant 'wary' right? I get why people like to break systems (I do it for a living half the time) but why try to break a game you're actually playing with other people? If the hacker finds a way to hack any system with next no effort or risk to himself, do the other players find it fun? Does the hacker player? I don't get it, but maybe that's just me and my players.

yeah, my spelling is rather horrid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) but the point i was trying to make is its best to know the tricks, it just takes a good RP'er to know what tricks to use. goes back to our oft quoted line of "just because you can, doesnt mean you should".

From former experiance I am usually the guy that finds the worst way to break a game, points it out to everyone, and says "There, see, it can be done, now dont do it." (Thus the reason I am generally not allowed to play a caster in most situations (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[Ed_209a]

Hackers are more powerful due to gear, Techomancers are "Swiss Army Knives" which are better able to adapt to changing situations.

In the timeframe of a single 'run, I think Technomancers are more powerful in the short term, but the fact of their abilities costing stun boxes limits their utility in the long term. Technos also have more problems taking a second role than hackers, because using implants to support that second roll costs them so much.

I do agree with CanRay about Technomancers being more adaptable.

[UmaroVI]

Technos can't really do anything well besides hack - not without seriously impacting their ability to hack. Hackers can be pretty good at Matrix (not as good as a dedicated technomancer, though) while also being good at one or two other things.

If you want to get some ideas, take a look at the characters in the first link of my sig; there's three characters with some mundane hacking skills (Combat Hacker, Generalist, Mercenary Rigger) and two technomancers (Technoshaman and Info Savant).

Another potentially useful resource is this: http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=6281.0, for an example of what an entire hacking attempt looks like for a technomancer with support from a party.

[CanRay]

I'll disagree with CanRay. It's easier to make a Technomancer. They also play easier and usually have an easier time hacking into something, as they can summon a number of sprites to pull some things off that agents just can't touch.

TM's also have the advantage of receiving the almighty handwave that only magicians seem to get in SR4th. Whereas you need to know response, loads, programs, devices, which cyber to take, which to avoid, commlink compositions and all that jazz with Hackers, TM's 'just are'.

OK, I'll correct myself...

"Hackers are easier to make than TMs, unless you have experience with magicians." TMs are Magicians with the Matrix.

[almost normal]

Technos can't really do anything well besides hack - not without seriously impacting their ability to hack.

With sprites, a TM can hack better then a hacker, and still rig on top of it. Hackers are binary. One, or the other.

[UmaroVI]

With sprites, a TM can hack better then a hacker, and still rig on top of it. Hackers are binary. One, or the other.

Sorry about that, I really should have said "hack and rig" and you are entirely right on that point. What I meant is more that it's very hard for a technomancer to be good at hacking and also at, say, fighting with guns or the like.

You can certainly make a mundane hacker/rigger who works fine. They won't be as good at either one as someone who focused on one or the other, but it's not very expensive to be a completely competent mundane command rigger.

[Stahlseele]

Did they fix the hole where a Hacker with Skill-Wires can have every single skill in the books as skillsoft for 10% of the list price by day 3 in the game?

[DeathStrobe]

A tip,all stats are meaningless on the matrix(for hackers). The only thing that matters if your hardware and your skillz. Unless you're a TM, then your hardware is your stats.

A few programs you'll need:

Stealth – makes you harder to be detected and is your threshold for being detected, so get this as high as possible.
Analysis – helps you detect things trying to hack in to you, and is used for your matrix perspective.
Exploite – this will allow you to hack past firewalls, crash nodes, and do pretty much everything in the universe.
Encrypt – This will buy you sometime if your commlink gets hacked.
Decrypt – To do on to others, that you wish to not be done on to you.
Sniff – This will allow you to get someone's ID and allow you to intersept data assuming your are in range of the target.
Spoof – hacking without needing to hack in. Helpful, usually safer, and quicker then getting past someone's firewall.
Attack – Sometimes you need to get in to matrix combat. Attack can be used on sprites, agents, AI, other matrix users, and pretty much anything worth attacking. Sadly, won't kill or incapacitate anyone. But the fact that it can attack everyone makes up for it, unless you trying to actually find someone.
Biofeedback Filter – will help your brain from getting fried by black IC or when you need to dumpshock.

I think those are all the programs you really need, and in my opinion, in importance of having them. Of course you do want ALL the programs, but assuming you can't have them all, I'd recommend focusing on those first.

[almost normal]

Sorry about that, I really should have said "hack and rig" and you are entirely right on that point. What I meant is more that it's very hard for a technomancer to be good at hacking and also at, say, fighting with guns or the like.

You can certainly make a mundane hacker/rigger who works fine. They won't be as good at either one as someone who focused on one or the other, but it's not very expensive to be a completely competent mundane command rigger.

Yeah, the difficulty in making a multi role tm is so difficult that I've made it a fun side project. The closest I've come is a beastmaster type build, using sprite commands instead of relying on trustworthy animals. Unfortunately, he requires lots of downtime, due to registering the sprites again and again.

[UmaroVI]

That's one pretty good way to roll; I play a technomancer rigger/hacker who works like that and is quite effective, but really does have to rely on drones to get anything done in the real world.

Another way to get a dual-role technomancer is this: take a Logic stream, put in a Cyberarm of Awesome (meaning you bomb your Agility and get a 9 agility cyberarm, then use only one-handed weapons), PuSHeD, Cerebral Boosters, and put a nanohive in the cyberarm along with NeoCortical Nanites. You can jam it in at 1 essence if you get some alphawares/biocompatability, and the arm is enough to let you play the physical combat game. The extra Logic and the PuSHeD/Nanohive mostly make up for the lost resonance. You're better at hacking and worse at fighting than a street samurai/hacker, but you're way better at fighting than most technomancers. The big issue is you have to get echoes for more IPs or take drugs.

[phlapjack77]

How about something like a TM infiltrator? Elf with Charisma stream, can sneak into most places and hide / talk / hack his way out of most situations. Doesn't show up on cyberware or magic scanners as anything special.

I think it would be alot better of a concept too if the GM allows Submersion during Karmagen, to give the Skinlink echo. Then nothing's safe from being hacked!

[UmaroVI]

The basic problem you hit is that you either run out of points, are mediocre at the talky and sneaky parts, or are worse at hacking than a mundane hacker/face/infiltrator.

[Shortstraw]

A.I.