[X] My Assistant

[Grimtooth]

Now Mardegun you see why i hate posting on this forum

The minute you explain something that sounds cool or some type of ROLEplaying experience you had where the rules were relaxed or interpreted a different way the LAWYERS come outta the wood work to shoot you down.

AND your idea sounded cool. I did something similar just for fun to my players. They weren't being jerks or anything i just wanted to humble them a little and show them first hand experience with racism.

[nezumi]

[Egon]

If you feel that you can't kill him out right try just taking a piece of him when he dose something that should kill him. Take a leg, a foot or an arm off. if he is a mage maybe just mangle him a bit. Drop one of his stats a bit due to the injury.

As a GM I feel i shouldn't kill PC by mistake but there is no reason why they can't die. My player even seem to have a feel for when things are getting serious in the game and death pulls up a chair just in case. The whole mood changes and they real know they have done well when they make it out. It is like the moment the net falls during a good trapeze act. None of us say any thing, but every one at the table hears the thud.

[shadd4d]

[TinkerGnome]

Whenever he's about to do something stupid and likely fatal:

• Warn him.
• Warn him again.
• Kill him.

I've done it. Works quite well for making a PC think things through next time.

[edit] Check the CLUE files for some good examples. Generally, if you hear a player say "It bounced off? Okay, I'll shoot it again." they're toast. Getting that second action is the Nice GM ™ way of saying "Run, run now!". [/edit]

[Dashifen]

[KillJuice]

Players waste their night to come over listen to you tell a story involving their character. Killing them out of spite doesn't help anyone, especially in your instance where there is a friendship away from the table. Doing it would tell everyone that as soon as the characters are not to your liking, you have no qualms killing them.

On the other hand if the character is an idiot, there is little you can do but show him why. Explain to him Cause and Effect. If you botch insanely stupid actions, death is your reward.

[Mardegun]

Moon-Hawk

[L.D]

*sigh* Many people here seem to be missing my point with the two rules.

No the GM isn't infallible, and yes there are more players than GM:s. That's why the GM can make the rules. And the two rules are there so that the GM can say: "Not in my game!" Why? Because it beats having an one hour argument with a player when you could be playing instead, while the rest of the players are watching the two of you fight. Trust me on this.

I've been in exactly the same situation. The player was my friend, when his character got hurt he yelled and I wasn't having fun as a GM. And when you're playing everyone is supposed to have fun. I tried talking to him, but he kept ruining it for all of us. It came to the point where either he quit my group or I stopped GM:ing. I'm still GM:ing.

Now if a player sees things differently or interprets certain rules differently, then fine. Take it up with me between gaming sessions and we'll discuss it. But when we're playing then it's my game with my rules. This is because we're all there to play and have fun and it's not fun for anyone when you stop playing to argue about the rules (or some other drek). That why the GM can (and if neccecary should) be hard and don't take drek from players.

[Arethusa]

I've been here. I have been exactly here. In the last game I played, on character kept doing enourmously stupid shit. It was never cool. It was always hilarious and annoying. And he whined. But this was not normal whining. This was whining for the ages, whining that you sing songs and tells tales about— whining to end all whines.

He tried to "stealth" his way around a compound with Stealth 2. Failed. Got caught. Asked the GM if he could would be able to think up a plan to get out of this. The GM replied that, yes, it was concievable that he could. The player responded by asking the GM to do so for him. The GM declined. He eventually ended up 'acting drunk,' which for him was smiling, half laughing, and telling guards that he had a bit too much to drink. They professionally walked his ass at gunpoint to the nearest sidewalk and told him to get lost. When we hit the place the following night, I was the only one professional enough to wear a mask. He got on tape. They already knew who he was. He got his ass hunter. But it didn't stop there.

He went through the barrens during this time killing everything in his path and making many enemies, not to mention the gangers that were already after his ass from long ago. He decides to pay them a little visit with his shotgun. Is hiding. Decides it'd be a good idea to yell down to them to let them know where he is. Gets stunbolted. Should not wake up, but bitches for an entire day to the GM, who finally cracks and lets him take back everything he was doing. (I should not he also whined to all the players that the GM was being unfair, lied about what happened in an attempt to get us on his side, and ultimately caused a lot of other problems that are not the purview of this board.)

He eventually came back. We were working on a kidnapping (that's finding someone who got kidnapped, not actually kidnapping someone, you evil cads). He decides, out of nowhere, before we hit the place, to drop off chocolates to the family of the missing, who simply stared at him in disbelief with one hand on the phone to Lonestar. Thankfully, nothing went horrendously wrong, but this was mostly because his ass stayed put outside.

Of course, there are more stories of his asinine daring do— stories about how he stabbed other members of the team in the back, stories of other things he did that make no sense and were a simple pain in the ass for all to see, stories of the adventures of him and his shotgun and complete lack of social skills— but you get the point.

When you run into a player who attaches unhealthily to his character, who goes beyond immersion and begins to place his deepest wants, desires, and personal insecurities into the character, you naturally have a player who will do anything to win, to be the best, and to be better than the people in his group. And you need to put his ass down now. Tell him to cowboy the fuck up, that this shit will no longer be tolerated, and that he better start acting like a pro in game and stop acting like a kid with a gun out of game if he wants to stay alive.

Do talk to him. Do everything you were planning on doing.

But don't forget that you shouldn't be too soft, because he needs to get his shit together, that is not your responsibility, and that is the simple end of it.

[Sunday_Gamer]

These tyopes of threads seem all the rage these days =)

1) Explain to your playyer it's supposed to be a cool movie. Explain to him that his character constantly doing insane things is turning your Blade Runner spin off into Charlie Angel II and it's starting to annoy the director.

2) Slap him silly. By this I mean there are a thousand and one ways to make him regret his actions without killing him. Make him understand with pain, loss and ridicule. =) They always work.

3) If all else fails, smoke him. SOme times, people just don't give you a choice.

I recall a game where we had to go running into a building after one of our friends who just thought wandering into the bad guys head office would be clever. We were all in the elevator feeling like everything was going fine. When the doors opened, the mage maintaining the "everything is fine" spell stopped and the 12 guards asked up politely to step out of the elevator with our hands up. Which, we did.

The Gm clearly explained just how seriously covered we were. When asked to hand over his weapons, one of the sams tried to draw. What choice did the GM have? He shot him, shot him muchly. If he hadn't been able to drive the point through before, he had us quite convinced before the sams body hit the floor. Course, some of us already KNEW this had been a really stupid idea, but we had to go in after my friend, the dufus.

Sometimes, ya got no choice.

And on the subject of fun, unless everyone is having fun, someone isn't doing something right.

Sunday

[Talia Invierno]

At least two separate parts to this thread at this point, if not three. I address the core question first.

[bahwi]

1) Talk to him, let me know there are rules that must be followed and reality that must be taken into account. All you have to say is "Watch out or you're character will die."

2) Let him kill his player. End of story. Two pages of this thread is just a lot of drama that shouldn't be. The game I play in at least one character has been dying a week or getting knocked into the hospital. Simple as that. =) We're talking to the GM to turn down the kill level. The game I run has it's death level just turned up a notch.

3) If the player doesn't get himself killed and you really feel the need to kill him off, you have two choices:
a) Spontaneous Combustion Roll:
Body: TN 8 + 1pt for each idiotic action the player has done in the game
or, if you want to be more "fair"
b) Who could have put all that monowire over your bed / in your bed when you slept last night? Sucks to get 8 hits of 9S (or 8S, I forget which) when the character jumps into bed. You make the flavor text, have the character SO tired that they run and jump onto the bed. Ouch, no armor, mono, and plenty of enemies bring up explanation. Enemies do build up over time, and they run into each other. Players should get at least one or two enemies each gaming session, and a few find it very easy to give up (0 on the motivation shoudl be recorded, but not actively checked or used). And many will give up (3 weeks ago you got blah blah fire, he hates you know, but 2d6 (roll of: 2-5) he has a better job and his motivation is now 0. (6-9) has not yet gotten another job and is just as angry. (10-11) Has found an old cache of weapons and is looking for you even more. or (12) Has found you.

You can make that 3d6, or whatever. Ever seen a pissed off corp. sec who enjoys SMGs? Think they don't exist???? What about that janitor whose son had finally gotten successfull but was the target of your most recent assassination. The janitor who drives a truck and is looking for you? No big weapons, just an old pickup. Right into your house (bottom floor) or on the street, or whatever. With nothing left to live for (only son, dead, no more success in his family, wife, left him or dead or whatever).

Don't forget, as GM, you've got power.

And whoever said being a GM doesn't make you infalliable? A pox on thee! A pox on thee! (Kidding!!!) But for characters like that, sometimes the quickest and easiest way is possible. I had a character who was infiltrating an enemy base of a group of cultists KNOCK ON THE FRONT DOOR.

186D, resisted against body after we pulled out the calc. That place was out in the NAN desert built to withstand a small army seige on it. Cultists do drugs, are hyper, and ready to go. The guy, an old friend of mine for about 12 years (4 at the time) laughed his ass off and understood completely. He even wanted to roll! Got a 32 or 33 or something like that too I believe. =)

Sorry, maybe I'm just too angelic for my own good. =) :vegm:

EDITED

Fixed my stupid Apox mistake to "A pox on thee." D'oh!

[Herald of Verjig...]

[bahwi]

[L.D]

@ Talia

:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

[Bölverk]

[Cain]

Look, it's obvious that the problem is the player, and not the character.

My suggestion is this-- the next time he does something completely stupid, let his character die. Don't look for opportunities to do so, let him kill himself. Be scrupulously fair and strict with the dice rolls.

When his character dies, let the player whine for a few minutes, then inform him of the Hand of God rules. Hand of God insures the character's survival, but *nothing* else. The character will survive to the end of the run, but the player gets to sit out.

At the end of the run, have him roll the dice to determine how long it will be until his character heals. Apply all modifiers fairly, and let the dice fall where they may. (Remember, after using Hand of God, he'll have no karma pool left.) Then, have him roll for Stress and Attribute Loss, plus the other Deadly damage effects. The character won't wake up until he heals to a Serious wound, so let the player see for himself how long that will be. (When he does wake up, make sure everyone talks about how close that one was, how his heart stopped several times on the table, and so on. If he's got a good Docwagon contract or was put in a good hospital, add a few choice pieces of cyberware-- a standard synthetic arm or leg, for example; or maybe an autoinjector loaded with antibiotics.)

Tell him that until that point, his character won't be availiable for game play. Tell him that if he wants to play in the interim, he needs to create a new character. Have everyone encourage him to come up with a new concept, to fill a new role that the team needs. He might whine a bit, but point out to him that he saw the rolls himself. He may quit or try to wriggle out of it ("Sorry, but your Docwagon service is only at Basic. That doesn't include automatic magical healing. When your character wakes up in a month, he can ask to pay a premium for it."). Don't let him. Make sure he knows that, at every step, it's his choice.

Odds are, he'll create a new character. This one might be as stupid as the first, but you can always encourage him into a new role.

[Arethusa]

Assuming you've kept the game's level of realism about the same throughout the whole game, the player doesn't deserve a warning. It's crazy and stupid in most cases, and you should know it without warnings from the GM to tell you when you've done something retarded.

[D.Generate]

Seriously jumping out of a plane wit h no chute = death I don't give a good god damn who this guy thinks he is. He's astroturf now. And that crap about yelling at you for taking damage he should just be smacked. I agree with almost everyones posts here stupid = dead no ways around it pushing you luck only works till lady luck starts shoving back and its usually with the icy cold hand of death. All my players learned along time ago that 1 man does not walk into a room full of yakuza and kill them all with a pair of handguns. Agian I would kill the guy and if he bitches about that tel him that he's no longer welcome in the group unless he drops his obviously crack induced roleplaying..... some people can't be saved, and its good to get rid of them early to avoid having a headache for too long.

[kryton]

People have been known to survive such actions. People do survive parachutting accidents and there's a stewardess I heard about who hit some snow drift and survived a fall. I'd make real consiquences to his character. His spine is irrevocably damaged and he's a para or quadrapalegic. There's thousands of injuries that could make him "hosed" I'd go that route. No reason to kill a character when a slow painfull life could be more fun. Make it so the character no longer wants to play the game. Add on some really nasty stuff. Maybe he's so messed up that the cyberware to fix him up will make him a cyberpscho so now he has to sell his soul to a corp hoping they can make him better. In reality medicine would see making him a fully functional human better than making him a vegitable.

[Sunday_Gamer]

On the subject of impossible feats actually happening sometimes, we've always had one last roll, when all else fails and we're screwed, we get one chance for lady luck to save us. We call it the "sprout wings roll". In all the time I've games only 1 person ever made his sprout wings roll, he had just fallen off a 30 story building. We were playing Hero system and he rolled 1-1-1 that is to say, a criticala success on his sprout wings roll. A vicious wing slammed into him from behind as he started his fall and it slammed him into the building and throught he window... he was hurt, but he waled out of that building.

Sunday

[D.Generate]

[phelious fogg]

I was once in a game where one of my friends got bored he was a gnome physad with strength boost.. he decided he wanted to leave the scene and tried to steal the riggers Westwind.. he found the door locked so he decided to just rip the door off it..

We all decided itwoud be better if he didnt play shadowrun anymore

[Arethusa]

Hey, I'm all for crazy things happening to save lives, but there's a difference between having this happen to you out of chance, having it happen to you ostensibly through chance but really through GM design as a reward or part of the story, and bitching to get it because you're entitled. That's really what it comes down to. Miracles are nice, but they are not something you are entitled to, and sure as hell should never be the norm.