Ghouls, and how they propegate Options

[VykosDarkSoul]

So,
I know that ghouls are made by the HMHVV III virus. What I dont know is how exactly this works for the spreading. It specifically states under I and II that they are spread via bodily fluid, however, it states under III that it is spread through bodily fluids or unprotected contact.

Does that mean if a ghoul claws me and deals physical damage (i.e. gets through my armor) then i have to make the toxin resistance test?

If so, is that made immediatly, or is it made after the 1 day. If it is made the first time, then does it not take hold? Or if you are infected (regardless of making your first resistance test) do you just keep making tests every day untill you become a ghoul?

Sorry, no books in front of me and its a little hazy, but i would appreciate your input, house rules, book/page #'s, examples, etc.

Thanks Dumpshockers!

[bannockburn]

Yeah. If the world worked the way the rules describe it, there'd be a full blown ghoul invasion by now.
There's some obscure subordinate clause somewhere that I use to justify it not being so.
Basically, in my game world, you can only be infected by a ghoul of your own metatype.

[Draco18s]

1) Physical damage that deals boxes (or if you're dumb enough to drink their blood).
2) Toxin text is made...I'm not sure when. 1 day, I think. I am AFB.
3) As for how many tests, and what happens, you'd have to look at the toxin rules. Generally there's a Power of the toxin, and Ghoul is very high, resulting in you needing multiple tests and multiple successes (last I recall, the disease was impossible to resist unless you either a) were a lucky son of a bitch and a troll, b) had cyber/bio for resisting and a high body and a lucky son of a bitch or c) spent edge and were still a lucky son of a bitch*).

*Decidedly "rules people" and "fluff people" not looking at each other's work, and having the fluff guy decide on the power of the ghoul disease.

[Yerameyahu]

Don't forget that Patrick Goodman gave us the fixes for Infected, specifically ghouls… a few months ago?

Disease resistance is definitely different from Toxin resistance, usually involving a long series of tests as you fight it off, and yes, Ghoul and Loup-Garou infection is incredibly hard to resist as written.

[VykosDarkSoul]

What that boils down to though is that a ghoul using his claws can infect? it doesnt have to be a bite etc?

[bannockburn]

Yeah, good look with cyber/bioware for resistance tests (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Magical disease and all that, nothing allowed, not even Cure Disease spells. Ridiculous, really.
Basically, only a troll with VERY high natural body has ANY chance at all to survive and NOT being a ghoul afterwards. I recall something like 8 body tests against a threshold of .. 8 or so. But I might misremember that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Edit: According to the rules, the ghoul only needs to look at you funny and you're infected.

[VykosDarkSoul]

Don't forget that Patrick Goodman gave us the fixes for Infected, specifically ghouls… a few months ago?

Oh? where can i find this godssend Yera?

[Yerameyahu]

I can look around. :/

Some people think O-Cells (beforehand) makes you basically immune to everything, but I consider that just as gamebreaking. It's not too hard to house rule a reasonable threat level/survival chance into this issue, of course.

[VykosDarkSoul]

Yeah, good look with cyber/bioware for resistance tests (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Magical disease and all that, nothing allowed, not even Cure Disease spells. Ridiculous, really.
Basically, only a troll with VERY high natural body has ANY chance at all to survive and NOT being a ghoul afterwards. I recall something like 8 body tests against a threshold of .. 8 or so. But I might misremember that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Edit: According to the rules, the ghoul only needs to look at you funny and you're infected.

its a power 8 with a -6 resistance (i think that applies to like, your chem gear?) and a speed of 1 day (10) dunno what that part means, does it mean it will only hit 10 times?

[Yerameyahu]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showuser=388 It's in his sig. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

III is ghouls: "Page 68, 2nd column, HMHVV III entry:
Change Vector to Injection (used to be Contact)
Change Penetration to -3 (used to be -6)
Change Power to 6" (used to be 8 )

Yes, it means you have to resist it 10 times, and the Power *builds up* as you do. Yes, the 'piercing' effect is like AP, reducing the effects of your defensive gear/implants/etc.

[Draco18s]

Edit: According to the rules, the ghoul only needs to look at you funny and you're infected.

Which is why you rent a crop duster for a few days, pulp a few ghouls, and mist the city.

Hooray zombie apocalypse!

[bannockburn]

The rules for diseases are in Augmentation, p. 129
In a nutshell:
The (10) means, that this is the number of disease resistance tests you need to make, so one every day for 10 days in this case.
You need to reduce the power of the disease (8 ) to 0 or lose 0.1 essence points with every test. If you lose 1 essence, you become a ghoul (very likely). If you fall below 0 essence, you die.
The -6 refers to the penetration, of 'ware or pharmaceuticals, though there are very few that even work at all.

Need to correct myself a bit:

No inoculations or antiviral agent has been developed which provides any bonus or protection against any species of HMHVV, though the innate resistance to disease of dwarfs does apply, as does the Cure Disease spell, if applied in time.

Of course, the lead researchers of HMHVV III both succumbed to the disease in the fluff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[VykosDarkSoul]

The rules for diseases are in Augmentation, p. 129
In a nutshell:
The (10) means, that this is the number of disease resistance tests you need to make, so one every day for 10 days in this case.
You need to reduce the power of the disease (8 ) to 0 or lose 0.1 essence points with every test. If you lose 1 essence, you become a ghoul (very likely). If you fall below 0 essence, you die.
The -6 refers to the penetration, of 'ware or pharmaceuticals, though there are very few that even work at all.

Okay, thats a little different, essentially that means you only need to make 1 test to avoide becoming a ghoul, but you may lose the other essence anyway.

If i remember right any unresisted power goes into the next test.
i.e. power 8, you resist 4, the next test is at power 12, etc

[VykosDarkSoul]

Thanks much for the awesome info and refs!

[Yerameyahu]

Okay, thats a little different, essentially that means you only need to make 1 test to avoide becoming a ghoul, but you may lose the other essence anyway.

You might have it wrong, I can't tell. You *must* make 10 tests, even if you 'succeed' on the first one. Test 1: 8 hits, great, Test 2, the Power is *still* 8 again, etc. However, 10 is not the maximum number of tests! You have to eventually get rid of all 80 points of Power.

The number in parentheses is the minimum number of Disease Resistance Tests the character must make.

[Draco18s]

I.E. you have to succeed 10 times before you fail 10 times.

[VykosDarkSoul]

AHA...okay, I see where I messed up there. you have to succeed at 10 tests to get rid of it. That makes a little more sense...and it also is a wonder that the entire world isnt overrun. But it also explains why ghouls are as shunned as they are, and why it would be so hard for them to find any type of medical attention. I think I like the errata from Goodman there as well.



Edit - dammit, ninjaed in my own admission of missreading by Draco!!! ::shakes fist::


lol

[Yerameyahu]

The errata makes it a little better (less Power really adds up, and Injection is relatively strict).

[Stahlseele]

Remember how under SR3, Ghoul-Infection was as easy to cure as a bad cold? Or maybe Influenza? Wonder where and when and how they lost that crucial bit of Information in the Game World . .

[Yerameyahu]

Maybe SR3 was wrong. It just depends on the world we want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

So . . do you want a Zombie-Apocalypse World? O.o

[thorya]

Remember how under SR3, Ghoul-Infection was as easy to cure as a bad cold? Or maybe Influenza? Wonder where and when and how they lost that crucial bit of Information in the Game World . .

Well, it's still as easy to cure as a modern bad cold or influenza. Wait a few days and hope it goes away on its own, because medicine isn't going to do anything for you.

[Yerameyahu]

Maybe, though I wasn't expressing an opinion. That's obviously not what we have, Stahlseele. If drugs aren't effective and the disease is really virulent, then containment must be very effective. *shrug* The point is to pick the right combination of parts that we want, that's all. I do think it's lame if ghoul-ism is as weak as a cold, don't you? It can be scary without destroying the planet.

[Falconer]

Yeah about the only thing which can save you is a good dose of O-Cells nanites. (rating 6 is not cheap at 15k).

Because the diseases penetration pretty much kills most other protective systems or reduces them heavily.

But the O-cell nanites automatically reduce the power of the disease before your resistance rolls.



But yeah the virality and sheer unlikeliness of anyone put in contact with it NOT turning into a ghoul is a major reason why I feel that the bounties on ghouls and the like should be firmly enforced and paid out.

[Yerameyahu]

If O-Cells work at all, *and* ignore Penetration on that technicality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) None of it seems intentional, so I'd rather just fix it all than deal with broken-fights-broken.