Those wacky, imprecise rules ... again ... Options

[_Pax._]

So, I just realised. The wording of Tailored Pheromones leads to some illogical, IMO abusive possibilities:

Tailored Pheromones: The subject’s body is altered to release
specially designed pheromones to subtly influence others. Tailored
pheromones add their rating as a dice pool modifier to Charisma and
Social Skill Tests. This bonus has no effect on magical abilities and tests.

.... specifically and especially: this gives +3 dice to resist Drain, for Charisma-tradition spellcasters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) How crazy is THAT, eh?



Anyone got other completely "what were they SMOKING" rules to share?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Did you not read the part you quoted?
The bonuses have no effect for Magical Abilities or Tests... Drain Resistance is a magical test.

[Elfenlied]

By RAW, Tailored Pheromones apparently help with self-control tests, which is somewhat illogical.

[Stahlseele]

By RAW, Tailored Pheromones apparently help with self-control tests, which is somewhat illogical.

"i still smell good, so there's that"

[VykosDarkSoul]

"i still smell good, so there's that"

or damn, that bullet just blew my chummers head off, scarred me so bad i shat myself, but you know what? its a rather pleasent smell after all, think i will keep going!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

or damn, that bullet just blew my chummers head off, scarred me so bad i shat myself, but you know what? its a rather pleasent smell after all, think i will keep going!

That is entertaining... Heh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[VykosDarkSoul]

That is entertaining... Heh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I cant take all the credit, I just kinda modified a George Carlin Joke a little (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[UmaroVI]

Some people (myself included) think that it means "Tests involving both Charisma and a Social skill" rather than "Tests involving Charisma and/or a Social skill" which makes it much less silly.

[Umidori]

Curious. I suppose the restriction would also prevent it from working in conjunction with Adept Powers, being as they are "magical abilities"?

Things like Mind Over Matter, I can totally see why that'd be a desirable limitation, but that's kind of more just because it's such a ridiculous power to begin with. What about more normal powers like Commanding Voice, Cool Resolve, or Kinesics? Surely the bonuses should stack?

~Umi

[UmaroVI]

Commanding Voice actually causes you to make a test (to which Pheremones don't apply because it is a magical ability). Cool Resolve and Kinesics just give you bonuses to tests, so they stack with Tailored Pheremones.

[Umidori]

Arguably the distinction you are making is between active and passive magical abilities.

Calling the active powers "abilities" and the passive ones something else does make some degree of sense, but isn't necessarily an ironclad interpretation, unfortunately. Since the RAW doesn't actually clarify what is and is not a magical ability, we're left guessing.

~Umi

[Yerameyahu]

The GM really has to interpret (or houserule) this to be 'when it makes sense'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It shouldn't work over the phone, for example. It probably shouldn't work on anything primarily magical, though clearly a magic bonus to a 'normal' social test could stack with it.

[Umidori]

I'd be inclined to let it apply to Commanding Voice as well, because the power's description describes the adept as using their innate magical power to modulate their voice, not directly magically manipulating their target.

But I totally see this as GM fiat, and every GM is gonna interpret it slightly differently I'm sure.

~Umi

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, but what do pheromones have to do with your voice? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) We're basically just seeing yet another version of the 'charisma = pretty?' issue, oh well. The rules are *very* clear: 'no magical abilities or tests', so at least they ruled on the side of caution.

[Umidori]

What do pheromones have to do with your voice? Only the exact same thing they have to do with normal charisma checks - influence people's mood, make them more inclined to agree with you or think better of you, make it harder for them to resist your charms. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi

[Yerameyahu]

So, nothing? Commanding Voice is your voice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Seduction, Con, Negotiation, those are (in theory) whole-person interactions (voice, looks, smell, body language, and 'charisma').

[Umidori]

And those whole-person interactions are abstracted into dice pools in order to make them useable in game terms.

If smelling good gives you a bonus, it should work pretty much any time someone can smell you. The same works for smelling bad, too. If you've just gone dumpster diving or popped out of the sewers, you're gonna incur negative dice pool modifiers on social tests where you can be smelled.

~Umi

[Glyph]

I always thought of commanding voice as something that uses the same Attribute plus skill mechanic as a normal skill test, but is not the same. It should be simply leadership plus Charisma, and the only thing adding to the dice pool should be improved ability. A vocal range enhancer or kinesics, maybe, because they affect the voice. It isn't trying to actually lead someone, it is a Bene Gesserit voice type of thing creating a compulsive reaction.

But if you are going to let things like tailored pheromones add to it, treating it like a normal usage of a social skill, then you should also add situational modifiers: the action is "disastrous" to the subject, the adept has no rank or authority, they are hostile to the adept, and so on. And if you do that, then the negative modifiers for most uses of the ability will reach the point where only a character like Hyzmarca's leadermancer will even have a chance.

[Yerameyahu]

Except, Umidori, that it's a totally separate *magical* effect. Like I said, I agree (doesn't everyone?) that these factors affect social tests (when relevant), but Commanding Voice is not some normal social test. Even if you think that smelling bad gives a Commanding *Voice* penalty, I think you're wrong there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Krishach]

Perhaps I am incorrect, but as a "dice pool modifier" I thought it does not stack directly with charisma, not modifying the stat itself, since it's not a stat modifier. But I agree it leaves a few things out in terms of explicit rulings. I would personally think it works with anything in person. Magical manipulation of the mind may not be directly affected, but the reaction people have to pheromones defies conscious decision. Since pheromones overcome inhibitions in the first place, would they not have SOME role in the overall acceptance of someone elses influence?

[Aerospider]

Whilst the magical question is an interesting one, the biggest loophole in this particular slice of RAW is that it doesn't rule out Resonance, so technically Fading tests for Charisma streams do get the bonus.

[Yerameyahu]

They might, Krishach, but what if you're Commanding them from further away? Through glass? Etc. But the stronger argument was already made, I think: smelling bad or dressing funny doesn't *hurt* your Commanding Voice, and neither does anything like that help it (nor any of the social mods, as someone pointed out).

Ha, Aerospider, until the GM thinks for half a second and fixes that error?

[_Pax._]

Did you not read the part you quoted?
The bonuses have no effect for Magical Abilities or Tests... Drain Resistance is a magical test.

Hmm, okay, I did miss that last sentence. As observed, though, it fails to eliminate Resonance-based tests.

I think it would have been better if they had just said "adds it's rating to all social skill tests made in-person", and left it at that. Occams' razor and all that.

[Miri]

or damn, that bullet just blew my chummers head off, scarred me so bad i shat myself, but you know what? its a rather pleasent smell after all, think i will keep going!

So if someone asks you "What, you think your shit don't stink?", you can tell em.. "No.. it actually smells quite nice, thank you very much."

[Yerameyahu]

That's not Tailored Pheromones, it's Clean Metabolism. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)