GM "soft balance", Using soft manipulators to keep a game fair Options

[Krishach]

I'd like to discuss methods that GMs use that are NOT hard rule modifications and limitations to discourage or otherwise moderate what might be an unfair advantage.

I do NOT mean "I don't allow that." I do NOT mean "House rule." Rules and allowances are hard: they are black and white, yes or no.

Soft balancing is the GM using a (hopefully) believable downside to something in order to set things in perspective for a player, and make them weigh a decision. Sometimes, this just means enforcing a roleplaying downside that players (possibly at other tables) usually ignore. A player allergic to Watermelon would need to encounter some eventually, otherwise it is not balanced.

Other times, no overt downside exists. Metagenic improvement, for example, is an easy one to abuse. For 10 BP you can bump a stat maximum, and it's cheaper to bump a maximum than pay the 25BP cost of maxing. Hard balancing here would be the GM saying "NO" or "you must take a very-bad negative quality."

A soft balance would be the GM discussing with the player the unusual parts of the quality itself. "Ok, you can take metagenic body. As a mutation, it may affect how you look, or you might want to consider how regular people would perceive this. If a regular person sees you take a punch like a wall, or crush a baseball bat handle, or catch a paper wad thrown at your back, they may get more than impressed. They may be scared. Or they may be threatened by you, making you a target."

The above I define as "soft" because it has a modulating effect on the world around them, rather than stone-cold numbers change. A "hard" social enforcement would be as "freak sidebar," with dice negatives.

Another good example of "soft" modulating was mentioned in the discussion about the "In Debt" negative quality. The "soft" way that was mentioned was a loan shark revisiting you, offering you money, or interfering in your business, after the debt is payed (Falconer mentioned this I believe). There is zero dice pool change, and no threats are made to the players numbers (ie, legbreaking takes damage boxes), but still the player must live with the psychological pressure until karma is payed.



I would like to discuss GM uses and strategies for "soft" modulating in general, especially how it is used to prevent munchkin-ing. This is psychological manipulation typically without dice roll changes, and are not "hard" rules, either RAW or house. It will be easy to stray to "hard" manipulators on this thread, since "soft" is so much harder to work with, but I'd like to avoid them and just compile a list for those who like this concept, but have trouble with it. Like me.

[Raiki]

Well, I employ what I feel is a particularly devious set of soft restrictions at my table. I enforce rules that people don't usually think are relevant (such as encumbrance), and I don't pull punches or fudge dice. You'd be shocked how few mages, riggers, and technomancers go with a 1 or 2 in Body or Strength when they know that they would, respectively, die from just a shot or two from a pistol or struggle to lift their own.

~R~

[Krishach]

All those are hard rules though, that are conveniently ignored by many. Anything not in the rulebook?

[Raiki]

All those are hard rules though, that are conveniently ignored by many. Anything not in the rulebook?

Well, I make the only player foolish enough to take Uncouth translate everything he says into "asshole" before I accept it. He tends not to talk, but he knew what he was getting into when we started.

~R~

[Krishach]

Nice one. Dare I ask an example, or is it ban-worthy?

[Tanegar]

One of my players, a dwarf technomancer, is playing the "greedy dwarf" stereotype to the hilt. He recently hacked himself an admin account at a local security firm, then attempted to drain the company's coffers. I ruled instead that he gained a 100k nuyen expense account... which will be audited regularly.

[_Pax._]

Metagenic improvement, for example, is an easy one to abuse. For 10 BP you can bump a stat maximum, and it's cheaper to bump a maximum than pay the 25BP cost of maxing. Hard balancing here would be the GM saying "NO" or "you must take a very-bad negative quality."

Um. It's only 10BP if you take it as part of the Changeling quality .... in which case, it comes along with 10BP of built-in negatives. And yes, the specific negative metagenic traits chosen should be vetted by the GM, in a hard balance sort of way.

After that? It's a matter of roleplaying. Remembering the unusual features the character has, and having them be properly accounted for where NPC reactions are concerned. (The guy at the rave who glows a soft orange, is gonna be noticed - not necessarily negatively in that environment either, but, noticed he will be. noticed and remembered ...!)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Krishach]

but that remembrance is the soft control I am talking about. It's important, even if the quality doesn't specify, and it's too often forgotten. It would be helpful to document tidbits like that, since there is going to be a GM or player who didn't think of it beforehand.

[Raiki]

Nice one. Dare I ask an example, or is it ban-worthy?

I can't remember any direct quotes, but I can say that he attempted to con his way past a female sec guard and wound up in prison for attempted rape. I think that pretty much sums it up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

~R~

[DuckEggBlue Omeg...]

A soft balance would be the GM discussing with the player the unusual parts of the quality itself. "Ok, you can take metagenic body. As a mutation, it may affect how you look, or you might want to consider how regular people would perceive this. If a regular person sees you take a punch like a wall, or crush a baseball bat handle, or catch a paper wad thrown at your back, they may get more than impressed. They may be scared. Or they may be threatened by you, making you a target."

"So to balance out my benefit I get... another benefit? AWESOME!"
- Most players I know

[Glyph]

I would be careful about "soft balance". Not every option in the game should have a downside. Some things, such as smartlinks, muscle toner, reflex recorders, FFBA and PPP armor, and kinesics, are simply optimal choices.

For SURGE, instead of coming up with a contrived downside to an improved Attribute, enforce the actual descriptions (pg. 73 of Runner's Companion) of SURGE. In other words, no ordinary-looking average Joe who takes metagenetic improvement: Agility and gets nano-intolerance and weak immune system as his negative SURGE qualities. I'm not a total fluff nazi. You take class III SURGE, you don't have to be an elephant man. But have anime-style hair, an extra eye, something!

[Umidori]

My players are relatively new to SR and tend to behave themselves for some reason, so half the time it feels like I'm the one getting them off rails with little nudges here and there. They really LOVE it once they get going, but they sometimes seem to forget that getting sidetracked or changing "The Plan" can be more fun than sticking to the script, so to speak. Most of the time if anyone is acting like a munchkin and looking for ways to make the rules tapdance for their amusement, it's me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That said, we do have the occasional interesting situation. The minotaur kinda built himself around subdual combat as a wrestler, then after a little while with the SR system decided he also wanted some additional ranged utility. He noticed how nicely bows seemed to fit with both his high strength and his NAN background, but he asked me how much a bow would get in the way of melee combat should the enemy close the distance. He hoped that he could still fight unarmed without having to drop the bow or sling it over his shoulder, and suggested possibly incorporating it into his Wrestling style, including it in his subduing.

I told him that'd be a pretty handy bonus if it were allowed, but that I wasn't sure about the exact ruling. We scanned the books together for something which clearly delineated one way or the other, but didn't really settle it that way. We discussed how melee weapons can be used with only one "free" hand no problem, and how arguably you can throw a punch with a single hand as well, but how subdual combat is more like full body grappling and might arguably need one to have both arms free. He brought up the fact that it isn't that hard to incorporate an improvised weapon into a wrestling bar or lock, for example using a metal pipe to choke and crush the windpipe, which I had no objection to, but I've always felt that Martial Arts bonuses (in this case to Subdual) should only apply when attacking in ways the style teaches - no getting +DV to unarmed from Boxing if you're attacking via a kick, for example. So we started researching the various wrestling styles that Arsenal includes, and couldn't find evidence of weapon inclusion, as these are mostly sports-type wrestling schools.

We eventually decided that he wasn't a conventional wrestler, but that he was more of a grappler. He already had it in his backstory that as a kid his drunkard father forced him into competitive wrestling in the first place as a way to win money to feed the booze habit, so it was almost a "Duh!" moment when he decided it was actually illegal pit fighting rather than typical "sport" wrestling, and that as a consequence he had experience incorporating improvised weapons into his fighting style. The "soft balance" trade-off to all this, however, is that 1) to improve his martial art he has to seek out special pit-fighting teachers and trainers who cost more nuyen and are less available than normal instructors, 2) there are no digital instruction materials available, it all has to be learned in person, 3) it ties into his Combat Monster and Big Regret negative qualities, making them more pervasive and requiring stronger roleplaying and character depth, and 4) his bow needs to be melee hardened.

~Umi

[_Pax._]

[...] actually illegal pit fighting rather than typical "sport" wrestling, [...]

Sangre y Acero. Sure, not a lot of the (very widespread) bonusses apply directly to wrestling-with-a-stick. But the reduction of "in melee" penalties by 1 could fit an in-your-face Archery style ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Umidori]

Well, he's not (currently) cybered. And his focus is on the subdual combat, because even though he was this hulking huge kid involved against his will in brutal gladiator style combat, he couldn't bring himself to seriously wound or kill the other guys if he could help it. Also, not sure Sangre y Acero would crop up in southwestern NAN.

~Umi

[_Pax._]

Not everyone who practisses Sangre, is necessarily cybered. Just lots of them are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The location thing, you're probably right.

But ... it's a direction for him to maybe explore; somewhere to FIND trainers. Maybe even find some work, n'est-ce pas? And make the fact that he, unlike everyone else, doesn't kill ... his own special, unique signature element.

Who knows? The crowds could wind up loving him for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Alternately, make one up. Or, in-character, have him come up with a new style. Say ...

• unarmed attacks against a subdued opponent gain 1 point of armor penetration (may be selected twice)
• +1 DV to unarmed attacks against subdued opponents
• +2 dice to defense in melee against enemies you have grappled

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Then, he could become the master, that other students seek out for instruction.

[Krishach]

You take class III SURGE, you don't have to be an elephant man. But have anime-style hair, an extra eye, something!

By my own definition, this is hard player control. Not all metagenic negatives are visual, nor do they invoke the Freak sidebar rules. I'm looking for things that are far more subtle, which I would like to use, similar to earlier.

We have a Strength 12 Body 10 Troll on our current team. Regardless of GM (remember we have 3), he gets a lot of side-looks where-ever he goes. Not only is this realistic, but he rolls with it and expects it, but it's generally agreed that he is NOT subtle if he's not rolling Inflitration. However realistic, this is not something written into the rules, but it is something the players and GMs should consider, if they don't already. I have a similar effect on people when I walk into a room, since I am in the upper end of Ork sizes IRL. Makes sense a troll who is unusually big would get more attention.

But you'd be surprised how that gets lost on some GMs, or some players. This is just one possible example, but it is something worth both mentioning and exploring, even though there is no HARD rule for it. It's worth it, to both balancing things like munchkining, and to add depth to the storytelling.

[Midas]

A player allergic to Watermelon would need to encounter some eventually, otherwise it is not balanced.

Not sure allowing allergies to certain kinds of food is particularly good in a hard-balance sort of way, but I do have an idea for "soft-balancing" allergies, which came up recently in my game.

The mage PC has a Severe Allergy to silver. Only once did I use a "ye olde silver mine" hideout for the bad guys in-game, and I was desperately trying to think of another non-railroady way for the PC's allergy to come up again. This is what I did.

The sammie has a Moderate Addisction to alcohol, so seeing as he and the mage never quite see eye to eye I decided that sometimes on the sauce he would recount the silver-mine incident in an amusing way that made the mage out as a wuss and him the hero of the piece. I let the mage know there was a rumour flying around that he was a vampire (the silver thing), and he thought nothing of it until someone the PCs had pissed off came gunning for them. Well the guys gunning for them were clever enough to satisfy themselves the PC mage was not a vampire, but did see that there might be some truth behind the silver thing.

When they ambushed the PCs, the mage took a silver bullet to his gut, and the PCs only just made it out alive. Suffice to say, the PC now has bought the Alleviate Allergy spell, but the info on his allergy is out there for anyone who comes after him that bothers doing their legwork ...

[Umidori]

Fun fact - silver can be found in numerous everyday objects!

1) X-Rays
2) Mirrors
3) Silverware
4) Jewelry
5) Coins
6) Candlesticks
7) Dental Fillings
8 ) RFID Antennas
9) Batteries
10) Musical Instruments
11) Solder
12) Topical Medications
13) Bandages
14) Clothing
15) Food Coloring
16) Traditional Indian Sweets

Lots of potential exposure vectors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Although admittedly, most only contain small amounts of silver, but hey...

~Umi

[Tiralee]

SR3 - so you know.

I've had players try and minmax like mofo's, stringing together the most god-awful combinations of advantaged/disadvantages in order to squeeze out that last build point - and they all stopped once they've had to PLAY their uncouth (Uncouth, I mean, seriously? The TN's for social interaction and how much you get paid aren't that important, eh..?) Klepto, allergic to soap and cats full-ambi street monster.

As "soft" limits go, the best we're have was a nice kid who took "Impulsive" as a disadvantagous trait.
Every time he table-talked, metagamed or simply do something with his new guns I'd have him roll his Will for TN 6 (RAW, it's not hard) in order NOT to "shoot that stupid guy who cut me off in traffic". And he stuck with it, as he realised that mouthing off made his character memorable (and recognisable across 6 states) but if he said that shit, he'd have to pull it off without the OPFOR* and the rest of the team killing him off.



*Please note that the character was shopping for a set of vat-grown daddy-sacks after a sniper from an Azzie Death Squad blew his off when he walked out of his favourite armorer. And he's "hung out to dry" with the rest of the team as they listened to the first cold rush of thought to the brain and declined on his offers to "shout them all free training ammo, well, not for automatic or squad-based weapons."

-Tir

[Cheops]

For me the ultimate of "soft balance" is a realistic world (hence my shift back to SR3). Go ahead and do whatever you think is awesome and abusive. I've got paper trails and be ready for a visit from the Star. I've busted tons of runners over the years for various things.

[_Pax._]

Fun fact - silver can be found in numerous everyday objects!

1) X-Rays
2) Mirrors
3) Silverware
4) Jewelry
5) Coins
6) Candlesticks
7) Dental Fillings
8 ) RFID Antennas
9) Batteries
10) Musical Instruments
11) Solder
12) Topical Medications
13) Bandages
14) Clothing
15) Food Coloring
16) Traditional Indian Sweets

Lots of potential exposure vectors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Although admittedly, most only contain small amounts of silver, but hey...

~Umi

Surgical sutures for internal use, too. Silver helps the body fight infection, and, is eventually just absorbed into the body - no need to go back in, surgically, just to remove them. So, serious and/or especially invasive surgery might cost someone with a silver allergy a very small bit more money.

[Yerameyahu]

Um. It's only 10BP if you take it as part of the Changeling quality

Incidentally, can't they just take a metavariant (probably but not definitely for power reasons already, heh) and then freely cherry-pick things like Metagenic Improvement? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Udoshi]

but that remembrance is the soft control I am talking about. It's important, even if the quality doesn't specify, and it's too often forgotten. It would be helpful to document tidbits like that, since there is going to be a GM or player who didn't think of it beforehand.

In a long-running campaign I played, we had a character surge in play - and they were ALWAYS super cautious about getting exposed to MORE mana spikes, for fear of mutating more.

An oft-overlooked rule for surge is that you can always get more of it(against your usual quality limits). But most people often forget you CAN gain more qualities in play, because GM's are usually really tight-assed about that kind of power creep.

[Udoshi]

Punchybows

I would have considered letting him alter the Iajutsu maneuver to allow Free-Action Unreadying too, which solves a lot of problems.
Quickdraw going backwards to quick-sheath, I guess.

It seems like you found a way that has much better potential for character development, though.

[_Pax._]

Incidentally, can't they just take a metavariant (probably but not definitely for power reasons already, heh) and then freely cherry-pick things like Metagenic Improvement? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes, but then they pay the full 20BP cost. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)