Punching people with vehicles, Is it really gunnery? Options

[Dakka Dakka]

So a vehicle with one or more mechanical arms should be able to perform melee attacks. If a rigger jumps into it, what skill is used?

What about anthroform drones?

What about cyborgs? Does the brain in the jar have to use melee skills?

[Dumori]

I'm not about to go book rummaging but I believe it's gunnery.

[The Jopp]

Make a separate skill - Mechanical Arm Operation

[Ruby]

I'm not about to go book rummaging but I believe it's gunnery.

Yeah it's gunnery. Page 247 of the 20th Anniversary book. (Not sure what it would be in the regular Core book)

[Dakka Dakka]

Strangely enough the same table lists melee defense as Response+Melee Skill for the jumped in Rigger.

[KarmaInferno]

I honestly don't think the intent is for Gunnery to be used in melee attacks, the chart I think means "ranged attacks" eve if it's not written that way.

Ramming indicates you use Vehicle Skill. It's the closest thing.




-k

[Modular Man]

There's a special rule concerning mechanical arms:

If any skill tests with the limb are required, roll Pilot + autosoft +/– Handling (if the drone is operating on its own) or Response + skill +/– Handling (for jumped-in riggers). [...]
Mechanical Limbs can be used for melee attacks, using the same skill tests outlined above.

That would mean that for an unarmed attack you'd be using the Unarmed Combat skill. Mechanical arms are not exactly common, especially pre-Arsenal, so it's not in the core rulebook.

[Dumori]

However for cyborgs it's by RAW gunnery or other skill if you know you want to spend karma on more than one combat skill to rule them all.

[Falconer]

Actually no, mechanical arms are the one case which doesn't use the gunnery skill. The skill actually lists getting autosofts with the 'blades' or 'demolitions' skills.

I'd say you use the normal skill. So rather than the one skill to rule them all... suddenly you may actually need automatics, heavy weapons, or even say blades (if you're holding an axe). Or you might consider the arm a club instead of unarmed... unarmed doesn't really seem to fit well... clubs do though. Remember with full mechanical arms you can pickup actual small arms and work them as if you were there in person working them yourselves... so it makes sense your actual skills matter more.


"...Autosofts (p. 246 SR4A) can also be purchased to improve the use of such limbs with particular skill (for example, Demolitions or Blades). If any skill tests with the limb are required, roll Pilot + autosoft +/– Handling (if the drone is operating on its own) or Response + skill +/– Handling (for jumped-in riggers)."


Also the latter portion on cyborgs is incorrect... there's two ways to read that. Your GM may have the cyborg use normal weapons skills instead of gunnery. Or it could be read as an allowable substitution and gunnery still applies. So no by RAW gunnery still does not necessarily always apply to jumped in attacks. Especially when the mechanical arms bit specifically mentions the blades skill (if you were say holding a combat axe).

[Neraph]

Actually no, mechanical arms are the one case which doesn't use the gunnery skill. The skill actually lists getting autosofts with the 'blades' or 'demolitions' skills.

I'd say you use the normal skill. So rather than the one skill to rule them all... suddenly you may actually need automatics, heavy weapons, or even say blades (if you're holding an axe). Or you might consider the arm a club instead of unarmed... unarmed doesn't really seem to fit well... clubs do though. Remember with full mechanical arms you can pickup actual small arms and work them as if you were there in person working them yourselves... so it makes sense your actual skills matter more.


"...Autosofts (p. 246 SR4A) can also be purchased to improve the use of such limbs with particular skill (for example, Demolitions or Blades). If any skill tests with the limb are required, roll Pilot + autosoft +/– Handling (if the drone is operating on its own) or Response + skill +/– Handling (for jumped-in riggers)."


Also the latter portion on cyborgs is incorrect... there's two ways to read that. Your GM may have the cyborg use normal weapons skills instead of gunnery. Or it could be read as an allowable substitution and gunnery still applies. So no by RAW gunnery still does not necessarily always apply to jumped in attacks. Especially when the mechanical arms bit specifically mentions the blades skill (if you were say holding a combat axe).

Mostly agree. I would disagree only on the "unarmed as clubs" bit. Personally I'd say either unarmed or a Ramming Attack.

[Dumori]

or a Ramming Attack.

I wouldn't go there to modle hitting things with a mechanical arm, that will lead only to stupidity and weirdness. The ramming rules are wonky enough with the ability to make anti tank ramming bike drones, plus the whole take damage part doesn't work too well puncgh with your mechanical arm would require you to be moving and then do damage to you.

[Neraph]

With all the armor you've got from yourself and the vehicle (and a rigger cocoon) you'll easily soak Bod/2 damage.

[MADness]

Wait, I could have a t-bird with grappler arms? Outlaw star really is Shadowrun in the future.

[KarmaInferno]

My rigger has a bike with mechanical arms.

Among other things, for drive-by punching.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)





-k

[almost normal]

Would a troll locking his massive arm in a 'finished punch'-like position use Gunnery, Melee, or some Exotic skill for jousting?

[Draco18s]

All I can think of is Outlaw Star.