Rolling to dodge, Do you tell your players if they're hit? Options

[Moon-Hawk]

This is obviously spawned by the thread about dodging in combat. I think the tag-line asks it all.

[blakkie]

I personally answered that i gave a hint. Why? Because i have fits of insanity where in i'm a nice person. But the more i think about it the more i like the idea presented in the other thread where you allocate and roll a single Dodge at the start of the turn. It still allows me to be a nice person, but also a hard-nosed jerk at the same time. Win-win i tell ya!

[Moon-Hawk]

Yeah, I answered that I only tell them that they're being shot at, but I have fits of generosity where I give hints. Occasionally.

edit: If they roll a dodge and my NPC misses them completely, I just look at them, smile, and say, "Good job, you dodged completely." And they feel so proud. :oops:

[nezumi]

Honestly, I should have chosen the last option. I mostly run online games, so (for the sake of speeding the game along) before the casings even hit the ground, how much combat pool will be spent on dodging is decided (however, I never have them dodge a shot that didn't hit them in the first place).

[ShadowGhost]

I only tell them that they'll be hit.

All too often they want to know how many successes, and what they're being shot with before deciding how many CP to allocate to dodging - they want to number-crunch, something I don't like.

I don't tell them how many successes, or what they're being shot with unless it's really obvious.

The next time someone asks me what they're being shot with, I'm going to have the NPC stand up, hold the gun out:

"This here is a Ares Predator III, loaded with AV ammo, 15 rounds per clip. I have Smartlink-2 and Rangefinder, 4 spare clips of ammo, another Ares Predator 3 with APDS ammo.

I'm ambidextrous, have 9 levels of Damage Compensators, Titanium Bone Lacing, Orthoskin III, Medium Military Grade Armor and Helmet, a skill of 12, and 14 Combat Pool.

I also have 20 Dice for Spell Defense courtesy of the my Mage friends."

"Oh, and I'm going to kill you. Have a nice Day." :D

[TinkerGnome]

I let them know that they were hit and the number of successes. I also don't hide die rolls from players (in a tabletop game, anyway, online I sometimes do). My NPCs get the same courtesies, of course, and I don't fudge die rolls for the PCs. It's all a trade-off.

As far as the "one dodge roll for the round" I think it'd be better to use the dice to come up with a straigth TN modifier to add to the person instead of as a real dodge test. That makes it slightly less powerful but speeds up the game a bit. Bob the sammie allocates 4 dice to dodging for the turn and rolls them against TN 4. He gets 2 successes, so all shots he is aware of for the turn (ie, he's not surprised by the attacker) have a +2 TN modifier because of his erratic movement. He could still use combat pool to resist damage, but not to further dodge. Reduce the modifier by 1 for ever 3 rounds fired or something to make up for the differences.

[John Campbell]

[Arethusa]

I've played with a GM who gave us total information.

It sucks.

Keep your players in the dark to cultivate suspense and believability. At best, give them a hint. Better yet, tell them they're being shot at and leave it at that. If you're worried about game playability, as the GM, only take away the combat pool they allot for dodging if the round actually would have hit.

[mfb]

most of the games i play in are online, with all the die rolled in the same place. i'm pondering the idea of keeping all gm rolls seperate, and see how it works out. thing is, we constantly correct each other on misrolls and the like--i can think of two times where my character has died, only to realize that he didn't die because the GM rolled incorrectly.

[Arethusa]

True. The success of such a system is absolutely predicated on trust in the GM. But given that you aren't even playing in realtime, and given the gravity of a player death, the GM really has little excuse for not double checking his work.

[Austere Emancipa...]

I hint. Basically there's three levels: "So-so", *Grin* "Bad news" and *huge grin* "Mwahahahahaa". They roughly correspond to 1-3, 4-7 and 8+ successes, give or take 5 -- 3 successes on a 15-round-burst of 30mm HE-I is pretty heavy shit.

[mfb]

heh. believe me, you can double, triple, and quadruple-check a roll, and still miss something that everyone else catches on the first pass. i've ever done anything like that, of course, but i've heard stories.

[Arethusa]

[Austere Emancipa...]

I guess the variation at this level is almost completely a personal preference thing. My group settled on hinting with a slightly modified democratic method: Use that which causes least whining.

[Arethusa]

It's more than just personal preference, though. It's also very significantly a measure of value and intent. If you want to play a game for shooting and (pseudo)tactical combat and number crunching, knowing everything is the way to go. If you actually like roleplaying, the others are far saner choices, each on different levels. Letting them have a hint tosses playability into the mix, as the mechanics can be screwy and having fun is usually what the group wants. The latter options are more geared for people who would at least find some attraction in the concept of something like Amber, and value roleplaying far above mechanics, or at least realism above everything else. Not, of course, that it is truly this simple, nor are these absolute rules, but they do tell you something about the group's approach to gaming.

[Austere Emancipa...]

I do not completely agree with you, in that it really doesn't have to have anything to do with realism exactly how much you tell about incoming fire to the players. Realism-wise, all that matters is the outcome, the amount of hits and misses in certain situations. After all, the whole mechanic and Combat Pool is a huge abstraction of a crapload of variables in a combat situation, and the specifics of how that mechanic works aren't very important compared to the results it gives.

[Arethusa]

Fair enough. Like I said, it depends on the approach that the group takes, and there are arguments to looking at dodging with knowledge of what's coming in that hold merit, though I personally tend to hold with it not being something you should be able to accomodate for.

As a general rule, though, I find that while you can't nail down specific values, it can tell a lot about how the group looks at gaming.

[Austere Emancipa...]

It can certainly tell a lot about the group, just like any such "Rorschach Rule". That bit I completely agreed with. :)

[Voran]

[broho_pcp]

It sortove depends. If I am GM-ing experienced players I will (try to) say one of two things. 1. You are being shot at, would you like to dodge or soak? or 2. You are being shot at, they are completely inept, missed, and probably smell bad. If I am GM-ing new or inexperienced players I will explain their options of dodging or soaking, with target numbers and explanations as to the skills use for each thing, I may even give advice like (don't worry about the 9M pistol he's using, your 7 ball. and 8 body will easily soak it; or worry about the 9M pistol he's using, you are a mage).

[Req]

I actually have PCs declare Dodge dice before I roll to hit them. I think of the Dodge as jinking out of the path of the barrel rather than actually dodging the bullet. I do the same with NPCs. This tends to deplete Combat Pool *very* rapidly.