Throwing in the towel, Have you or your players ever quit a run? Options

[Ruby]

So last night my husband was running his weekly game and I had felt since the week before that we had botched the run and were lucky to get away alive. Here's some background.

The run itself had been tricky yet simple. A matrix gang had stolen a drone from a corp and we were tasked in getting it back. The original plan had been to infiltrate their neighborhood meeting and act like concerned citizens and con them until we could find the drone and get it back. But the hacker spied a nearby patrol drone and hacked it for simply being in his LOS. This caused a chain reaction where we got into a bit of combat with some of the gang's muscle and then an attack from a drone with a sniper-rifle.

My adept was quick enough to dodge the bullets and we all got out with our lives. Last night we picked up at our safehouse and despite my attempts both IC and OCC to convince the team that the run was a lost cause and it had been the fault of the hacker, everyone was keen on still trying to do the job. I had given my character the Common Sense quality and it didn't take that to know any attempt to go back was suicide. So I had my character quit and sat it out (it was at our home so I just sat off to the side at my desk). My husband even tried to give the players some pretty big hints that the mission was a lost cause (a mage tracked the hacker down and had a tree spirit trash his place as a warning) and the they found logs showing the drone in question had been dismantled. The players actually called the Johnson and showed him the logs. He told them they didn't have a job and hung up.

They STILL decided to go in guns a blazing at this gang's hideout to steal all their drones to find the drone or its parts. It ended with them dying in a hail of drone-related gunfire.

Long story short: Does anyone else have any stories like this? Where they pulled out of a game despite what the other players wanted or As a GM have you ever realized your campaign hit a dead-end?

[Makki]

usually my table can agree on what we do, but if that ever happened, my char would do something like this:
"Ok, guys. In my opinion this run is over. I'm outta here. You go on if you want to. Since you're even more lost without me, I'll send you a replacement guy I know. I don't like him too much, though."
Now you can switch your preciouse sensible character with some generic, mostly useless douche-bag like for example a core book sample character.
Win-win-win situation.
The others can keep going.
The GM doesn't have to make up a new story on the fly and can wipe out everybody (wether he likes it or not)
You can keep playing and you don't have to actually contribute to the run (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ruby]

I actually had a replacement sitting on the printer because I had spent the week dreading the game, but the GM wouldn't allow me just to swap. I just had this gut feeling it was going to go sailing to hell on a zipline of the damned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

As for WHY I didn't want my character to die... It wasn't that I was attached to her. I'm very much a roleplayer first and foremost. I take my characters motivations seriously and this character had a strong sense of self preservation. I've had some characters that were far more selfless or reckless, depending on how you want to look at it.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Well, after numerous hiatuses and hitches, my group and I decided that they were tired of the run they were on. Since they were at a relatively good stopping point, I just narrated the run out with them making a clean getaway with the goods they had already acquired.

[Aerospider]

I feel your pain Ruby. I find SR players all too often think of death as preferable to conceding. I can see where they're coming from - it's an anticlimax to have a story fizzle out by just going home. It is viable to run games such that every game ends in success with only occasional PC fatalities (or none at all) but I won't run that way - I like my RPGs to have heartache and unpredictable endings.

On the flip side though -

I do remember a game back in my uni days (3rd, maybe even 2nd ed) where the team had gone on an epic run to save their favourite band (Mortally Wounded by a Bagel, what a name!) from kidnappers. It involved corp hits, double crosses and submarines, culminating in tracking the targets to a private island in the Pacific where they found the band sunbathing with cocktails. Turned out the band were orchestrating their own extraction, which they'd clearly managed just fine, but needed the team to have tracked them this far to help them to
extract their host's wife who was having an affair with the lead singer. The host was a rich and powerful shapeshifter and had his island paradise heavily secured by his personal militia. Also a guest at the time was a mysterious power-player with multiple personalities who had been cropping up in the team's adventures since day one. In truth I hadn't bothered formulating any potential avenues for success but had resolved to run with any half-baked idea and cut the PCs a few breaks here and there, but after scoping the whole island out they had a huddle and conclued any action against the host was suicide. They duly knocked on his door and grassed up the band to ensure their own safe departure. I was disappointed that such a big, enjoyable and personal (for the characters) run ended so unheroically, but had to hand it to them for the self-preservation aspect.

[Blade]

As a GM have you ever realized your campaign hit a dead-end?

Copy-pasted from another thread (about unexpected actions from PCs):

I didn't expect my PC to start breaking the rules of the underworld.
I didn't expect them to try to "teach a lesson" to the fixer who had just clearly explained why acting like they did was a bad idea.
I didn't expect them to "ambush" the veteran streetsam instead of the fixer.
I didn't expect their ambush to be "I stand in the middle of the alley with pliers".

At that point, I did expect the unfit ork hacker to try to rip the streetsam's piercings with the pliers.
... But I didn't expect the streetsam to cut the hacker's arm off and fill his condition monitor in one blow.

I did expect the hacker's teammates to get him out of here.
... But I didn't expect them to have their Long Haul crash right then.

Long story short: I didn't expect my team to become the #1 public enemy of the Sprawl's underworld half-way in the campaign.

One of the player moved away and we couldn't finish the campaign. But after this happened, the campaign was clearly derailed and rushing towards an early end.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hey, we just had a similar issue a month or so ago.

Long story short, The characters took a run to steal some data from a Casino run by one of the Mob Families in Seattle. When they show to deliver the Data, they are caught in a crossfire between the Mod that hired them (attempting to eliminate the runners), the Triad that wanted the data (Trying to gain foothold in the city), and the Mob that owned the casino (who wanted their Money back - Money that was already long gone). Now, being shadowrunners, they were a bit incensed that they did not get paid for their efforts, so they took the war to the Mob and the Triads. Very soon, the Ninja decided that this was a no-win situatiuon that would spiral out of control, so he just quietly vanished, leaving no forwarding contact information. The rest of the team continued in their grand scheme of vengence on the groups. Eventually even they decided it was a no-go, but not until a great many of their contacts and the Mage's Magical group were all eliminated. It was pretty entertaining, though. At least they realized their predicatment before they were wiped out. Fixing the situation took another few game sessions (resulting in a marriage to the Mob). Great times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ruby]

@Blade: My husband knew the game was done and he GMed accordingly. He's very realistic about that sort of thing and would adapt the game accordingly. That's what led to this fiasco in the first place. "Your actions have consequences" is something he tried to get into the team's heads on many occasions.

[Krishach]

oh hell yes we've bailed on a run.

From being double crossed by a Johnson (run was the followup) to biting off FAR more than we can chew, there are mechanics to deal with this for a reason. We are still being hunted by a particular set of people for escaping a trap that was set because we were smart enough to walk away. This is what makes Vindictive a bad quality to botch a composure roll on.

Basically, shadowrunners are mercenaries with a wide skillset, right? Thieves, mercenaries, kidnappers, etc, all seem to have one general principle in common in most stories: the smartest ones who survive the longest know when to walk away.

I am also not sure if these characters were roleplaying it, but that's another killer of players at our table. If we designed a personality that would pursue this or die, they will unto death. Sucks to lose a good character, but roleplaying your character to the hilt, to the bitter end, is a matter of pride at some tables.

I'm not surprised your team died on this. The GM gave them everything they needed, and at some point your players have to learn. Confidentially, our current table has a few people who just refuse to act like shadowrunners. They ignore dangers, take no safety steps despite seasoned players giving hints and info, and in general regard the game as a comic book. GM newbie armor has officially ended, and two GMs are putting together a run for the sole purpose of hard-knock schooling for those players.

Your husband should have killed them based on your post. If he wants a run to scare pants off players and teach lessons without a night of character remakes (unless they pull more stupids), PM me. I'd love the feedback on the idea we had.

[snowRaven]

There's been several situations at my table where one player decides to opt out of a run - at one point in time we had a street sam who abandoned mission whenever he took too much damage (roughly a serious wound), regardless of the circumstances. If he could retreat, he would--even if it meant leaving the rest of the team behind.

Rarely have the entire team quit a run, but it has happened - though at times they have collectively decided to screw the johnson and finish the run in their own way (keep the paydata, sell the prototype to a contact, return the stolen goods to the target, or even kill the johnson).

In some situations, a player has not only decided to abandon the run, but started working against the rest of the team - covertly or overtly - when loyalty to a contact (or thirst for power) won over loyalty to the team.

Over 22 years of play it's been fairly infrequent, however.

[last_of_the_grea...]

Neither I nor any team I have been a part of have ever quit a run. We did turn one down though. It was our team's second mission
Fixer: Good job on your first run, gang. I've got another one for ya.
The team's Face: Great! What's the job?
Fixer: Kill Don Bigio. 10 million nuyen.
Me: No. Goodbye.
Rest of the team follows, GM is stunned.

[Ruby]

Your husband should have killed them based on your post. If he wants a run to scare pants off players and teach lessons without a night of character remakes (unless they pull more stupids), PM me. I'd love the feedback on the idea we had.

Well he ended the game before any actual deaths due it getting towards 1am, but he pretty much declared "You all die as the gang's onslaught becomes too much." The newer of the players told me after the game "You should have stayed." All I could do was shrug at them. I made my choices and I knew damn well one gun adept wasn't going to turn the tides.

[Krishach]

That's one thing I'll give my current group over any other I've ever had. You play YOUR CHARACTER to the hilt. If your character is a hero, you rush in, knowing the odds, and pray. If your character is a serious mercenary, and your piers for a SINGLE job collectively opt for suicide, you bid good riddance, whether they make it or not. You play the character you set out to play, right?

Our PLAYERS are sporting, honorable, and understand it's just a game. We also understand characters aren't always. D&D and many other RPGs intentionally set up a collective camaraderie, and also assume a certain amount of trust to get things done. Shadowrun has never assumed that. On the contrary, you are assumed to mistrust your fellow players as much as your NPCs. You need reasons to trust each other. Write it in a back story if that's the case.

Based on your description, I personally think that you and your husband played it right. The only way I'd say otherwise is if you bailed and it was contrary to your own character concept with no personal blow back. If you were the hero and walked away? Roleplay some guilty conscience. Rake in that RP karma. But never let anyone else tell you what YOUR character should have been like in the first place. Not even a GM.

[Ruby]

My character was hardly the hero type. She was some 15 year old kid who thought she should go into the family business and found herself teamed up with a troll who couldn't take anything seriously, an arrogant 'super genius' hacker (he had a logic of 10), a slightly less arrogant fire-themed mage and a blades adept of which she had no opinion of one way or the other. Like I said, she had a strong sense of self preservation and wasn't going to throw away her life over a drone and a Johnson she was starting to distrust.

[TheOOB]

I nearly walked out on a mission once. It was a pregen mission. We were hired to steal a fish tank from a museum, which went off without a hitch, when we were approached by Johnson's boss to steal it back. I pretty much said "No, a professional doesn't bite the hand that feeds them". I only did it because I didn't want to grind the session to a halt.

Honestly though, the New York SR missions were all pretty bad from my experience.

[Shortstraw]

Rarely have the entire team quit a run, but it has happened - though at times they have collectively decided to screw the johnson and finish the run in their own way (keep the paydata, sell the prototype to a contact, return the stolen goods to the target, or even kill the johnson).

Happened a few times and always ends with a dead johnson.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I nearly walked out on a mission once. It was a pregen mission. We were hired to steal a fish tank from a museum, which went off without a hitch, when we were approached by Johnson's boss to steal it back. I pretty much said "No, a professional doesn't bite the hand that feeds them". I only did it because I didn't want to grind the session to a halt.

Honestly though, the New York SR missions were all pretty bad from my experience.

Walked out on a Mission in last Friday Night's Game. Young Runner, mainly A Courier/Driver (who was trying to break into the Runner scene for the kicks, idolized the Face/Driver from his P2O Feeds) was told he needed to go into the Federal Building and Extract a Witness/Execute a Witness to keep a Mafia Family secure. Yeah, more than he signed up for. He walked.

[binarywraith]

Back in the Dark Ages, when I actually got to play Shadowrun, my decker walked on several runs when his team turned psychotic on him. He wasn't a pacifist per se, but he didn't go in for the slaughter of bystanders.

The most memorable time he walked was the time the team's rigger pulled a Vindicator drive-by on a gang they were supposed to be persuading to move elsewhere... during a family reunion/block party. Dozens of relatives and kids dead. The rest of the group wondered what was going on when their secure comms network went silent, that's for sure...

[ShadowDragon8685]

Oh, I've just remembered. Long time ago, aborted game. The first session of the game, and the GM had Mr. Johnson give us an offer: immediately proceed to a clandestine location which has stopped communicating and sort things out.

The pay offered was like, 150,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

I immediately concluded that it fell into the category of "too good to be true," decided that it was either a doublecross or a charlie foxtrot, and walked out. The rest of the team followed me.

The GM was steamed, because he had literally nothing else in mind. We told him we weren't feeling suicidal, and we'd just wait for a more reasonable run. The game never met again, sadly, but c'est la vie.

[Ruby]

Oh, I've just remembered. Long time ago, aborted game. The first session of the game, and the GM had Mr. Johnson give us an offer: immediately proceed to a clandestine location which has stopped communicating and sort things out.

The pay offered was like, 150,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

I immediately concluded that it fell into the category of "too good to be true," decided that it was either a doublecross or a charlie foxtrot, and walked out. The rest of the team followed me.

The GM was steamed, because he had literally nothing else in mind. We told him we weren't feeling suicidal, and we'd just wait for a more reasonable run. The game never met again, sadly, but c'est la vie.

That's something that you offer after the players have got some karma under their belt and the Johnson has proven "trustworthy" for a few sessions. Even then that's definitely a red-flag payout.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh, I've just remembered. Long time ago, aborted game. The first session of the game, and the GM had Mr. Johnson give us an offer: immediately proceed to a clandestine location which has stopped communicating and sort things out.

The pay offered was like, 150,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

I immediately concluded that it fell into the category of "too good to be true," decided that it was either a doublecross or a charlie foxtrot, and walked out. The rest of the team followed me.

Probably a good thing... Those Mining facilities, where they stumble across alien life-forms... not good to just go traipsing into.

[Snow_Fox]

Whoa that icon is messing with my mind.

The closest we came was a long time back in te old module "Mercurial" the DM play up her psychosis so well one of our sami's declared "We have to keep her alive for 5 days, do we have to keep her conscious?" he wanted to tranq her and leave her tied up in the closet.

[Ruby]

Heh, my icon? It was the best I could find since I can't seem to upload my own. I did end up having some talks with the other players and one of them said "well I didn't see you coming up with anything." I admit I had no idea but that's the thing, I admit I had no idea how we could "fix" the situation without it being TPK and everyone was adamant that their characters had motivation to get revenge or do the job regardless of my suggestion we call it quits.

[CrystalBlue]

I honestly don't like players who deem a run 'too deadly' or 'too dangerous' by the sounds of it. Mainly because I am the only one that GM's and I can only think of so many good ideas to throw at the characters. When I plan an entire run for you for a night and don't make it blatantly obvious that it's a trap or something, I expect you to play it. If my players do what some of you have said you did (walk out on the run that is set up) I would do the same: stand up, take my stuff, and walk out. Quickest game ever. I'm not about to sit around and try to make a game off-the-cuff for a bunch of players that don't trust me as a GM. That's a huge waste of my time and, honestly, an insult. "Yeah...but my character wouldn't take this run because I don't want to die. What else do you have?" Umm...nothing. I only have so much time to prepare one game for you, I'm not about to string around five or six plots that are ready to go for you unless you want to wait a few months between games.

Sure, there are times when it is a good idea to turn tail and run from a mission or to abort it, and I have had that happen in a number of my games. And I'm glad when my players can see that and do what is smart to do. But walking up to the only Johnson meet I have ready for the group and simply shaking their heads and leaving? Well then, I guess we'll not be playing SR tonight.

[ZeroPoint]

What you should do at times like that is let them walk out but let them know that the offwr is still on the table. Then they get home, their bills are piling up, aunt sally needs that 20k for medical treatment or she wont last another month...and her fixerdoesnt have any other jobs lined up...fast forward a few days and apply heavier financial pressure. Still no jobs. They may reconsider that job now. Thats what shadowrun is all about. Do what nobody else will do because you have to in order to eat.