[X] My Assistant

[Bearclaw]

Two Shadowrun games in the pipe, and I've already paid for both of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Now I just have to wait. I've got 2 words for you guys: "Hurry up!"

[Stahlseele]

SR:R=190$
SR:O=275$
-------------
so its' 465$

For two games . . x.x



I have to check what kind of SWAG i am going to get from them some time . .

[Notsoevildm]

Glad it made it. Thought for a while there it wasn't going to happen. I might be out of pocket but like others, I now have two shadowrun games to look forward to. So yeah, get a move on you guys. Where's my swag and my beta invites!?

[almost normal]

SR:R=190$
SR:O=275$
-------------
so its' 465$

For two games . . x.x

SR:R = 15$
SR:0 = 0
--------------
Final cost : 15$

Difference of 450$.

Giving a cost of 2$ pints, and a 25% tip for the bartender, that's a net profit of 180 beers in my book. The only swag worth 180 beers is 180 beers.

[Stahlseele]

i am german, so this will shock many people:"Beer is yucky/icky and leaves stains"

[almost normal]

i am german, so this will shock many people:"Beer is yucky/icky and leaves stains"

I used to like you, too.

[Stahlseele]

Many People do. I do not understand many People.

[Redjack]

Final cost : 15$

Difference of 450$.

Giving a cost of 2$ pints, and a 25% tip for the bartender, that's a net profit of 180 beers in my book. The only swag worth 180 beers is 180 beers.

I think you miss the point. For some fans of the game, the ability to invest in the future of the game is more than the face value in dollars. Given the idiot decisions when knot-headed bean counters and suits call the shots on development, the ability to fund someone(s) who is(are) passionate about the game is a worthwhile investment. For me, the dollars to both Kickstarters is about more than just the swag (don't get me wrong, I love SR swag), its also about insuring that the game continues to thrive. Three companies actively developing for it, two funded by Kickstarters, says a lot about what the fans want and are willing to pay for.

[Draco18s]

SR:R=190$
SR:O=275$
-------------
so its' 465$

For two games . . x.x

SR:R=$60
SR:O=$66 (I had selected the co-op pack, but dropped a level, but was willing to let the extra buck slide)
-------------
so it's $126

For two games (and a t-shirt, sound track, and possibly a PDF book*).

You know what? I'm ok with this.

*I offered to forgo the three miniatures in exchange. I don't really want them, and it'll save on shipping.

[almost normal]

I think you miss the point. For some fans of the game, the ability to invest in the future of the game is more than the face value in dollars. Given the idiot decisions when knot-headed bean counters and suits call the shots on development, the ability to fund someone(s) who is(are) passionate about the game is a worthwhile investment. For me, the dollars to both Kickstarters is about more than just the swag (don't get me wrong, I love SR swag), its also about insuring that the game continues to thrive. Three companies actively developing for it, two funded by Kickstarters, says a lot about what the fans want and are willing to pay for.

I agree, to a limited extent. To me, Kickstarting in general feels an awful lot like taking advantage of fanboys with too much cash. If I invest in something, I expect something out of my investment. A shirt isn't a good return on 100 dollars, and you admit as much.

I almost feel like the only possible way Kickstarting works is if they'd give you your money back at higher tiers after the product went to market. 15 bucks for a game? Reasonable. 150 bucks held onto for a year and a half, then given back to you with a game and a shirt? Reasonable. A shirt and a game for 150 bucks? Not so much.

I really get the whole showing support thing, but the way *I* do that is by getting into it, and getting friends into it. I've gotten good deals on the SR4a rulebook and sold them for cheap to friends. I've gotten other friends to buy into Eclipse Phase. In these cases, everyone wins. In the other cases, I feel like if I'm just going to needlessly throw cash at something because it says Shadowrun, I'd be better off signing checks over to Critias, or Patrick Goodman, because their quality is already proven, and I'd rather encourage them then support SR360 : 2.

[Redjack]

I almost feel like the only possible way Kickstarting works is if they'd give you your money back at higher tiers after the product went to market. 15 bucks for a game? Reasonable. 150 bucks held onto for a year and a half, then given back to you with a game and a shirt? Reasonable. A shirt and a game for 150 bucks? Not so much.

While your numbers are obviously an exaggeration, perhaps it is my personal experience in custom development costs that causes me to understand economic dynamics. To be honest, given the amount of swag that will be going out with the SRO Kickstarter and the upfront development costs that the team is facing, I still have concerns about their model. From one perspective, I see your point about investment vs. donation. On the other, I don't think Jan will be getting rich anytime soon from this. I got in at level that I felt comfortable with.

I really get the whole showing support thing, but the way *I* do that is by getting into it, and getting friends into it. I've gotten good deals on the SR4a rulebook and sold them for cheap to friends. I've gotten other friends to buy into Eclipse Phase. In these cases, everyone wins. In the other cases, I feel like if I'm just going to needlessly throw cash at something because it says Shadowrun, I'd be better off signing checks over to Critias, or Patrick Goodman, because their quality is already proven, and I'd rather encourage them then support SR360 : 2.

I'd rather not debate the various product pipelines, but rather focus on what we've seen from the prototypes here and the stated end goals of the project. In that case, I see something new. I see something that is in line with a Shadowrun game most of us would like to play and in the end, the only way that might get started.

[Critias]

SR:R = 15$
SR:0 = 0
--------------
Final cost : 15$

Difference of 450$.

Giving a cost of 2$ pints, and a 25% tip for the bartender, that's a net profit of 180 beers in my book. The only swag worth 180 beers is 180 beers.

While I appreciate the compliment you paid me in a later post, I've got to say that there's just something perverse about showing up in a thread about a kickstarter and, essentially, bragging about having not contributed to it. What do you want, a pat on the back for not helping the video game get made? Some weird sort of indy-geek cred for not being interested in something other people like?

If you're so very disinterested and pessimistic about the game, why not just avoid this thread instead of crapping in it?

[_Pax._]

6,003 Backers, $558,863

FUNDED

... an average of $93.10 per backer. Not bad.

[_Pax._]

15 bucks for a game?

That kind of pricing is about thirty years out of date. PC games nowadays bear an industry-standard MSRP of $60.

(Obviously, Indie games, some digital-only games, and older games sometimes come in lower than that ... but the standard MSRP for a big, new title is still what it is.)

[StealthSigma]

Many People do. I do not understand many People.

Only bronies....

[Aaron]

While your numbers are obviously an exaggeration, perhaps it is my personal experience in custom development costs that causes me to understand economic dynamics. To be honest, given the amount of swag that will be going out with the SRO Kickstarter and the upfront development costs that the team is facing, I still have concerns about their model.

The good news is they're building on an engine that already exists and works, so a lot of the development has already been done.

[Draco18s]

industry-standard MSRP of $60.

I'm still butthurt over the rise from $50 to $60, as it all has to do with the blu-ray transition. My PC games aren't subject to this material cost (as they still come on DVDs when I don't buy digital) but I still have to pay for it.

[Stahlseele]

Only bronies....

Those are easy enough to understand.
Fans of a wonderfull fun little TV Show.

[almost normal]

(Obviously, Indie games, some digital-only games, and older games sometimes come in lower than that ... but the standard MSRP for a big, new title is still what it is.)

Kickstarter by nature only funds indy games, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[Draco18s]

Kickstarter by nature only funds indy games, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

And most games on Kickstarter you can get "the game" with no frills from between 15 and 30 bucks.

I fail to see what your issue is.

(Board games being an exception, due to the cost of producing the physical materials).

[almost normal]

I've got to say that there's just something perverse about showing up in a thread about a kickstarter and, essentially, bragging about having not contributed to it. If you're so very disinterested and pessimistic about the game, why not just avoid this thread instead of crapping in it?

Earlier I'd mentioned that if the game was close to being funded within 12 hours, but not quite there, I'd chip in 50-60 bucks for the cause, if only as a show of solidarity with other like-minded geeks, and I'd get the chance to prove myself right. In hindsight, it was a stupid thing to say, but I would have stuck with it.

I get the sentiment of 'If you don't have anything nice to say...', but I've been on this boat for a while. With licensed products, there's only four ways this goes.

Rapes setting, Is Successful (Fallout 3)
Rapes setting, Is a flop (SR 360)
Sticks with setting, Is Successful (WoW, FO:NV)
Sticks with setting, is a flop (EQ2, ST:O, SW:TOR)

Personally, I see SR:O ripping out the SR universe and game engine where inconvenient to make the easiest, dumbest game to appeal to the most amount of people, and nothing I've seen has shown me otherwise. There would be no better time or place to talk about my thoughts on this then a Shadowrun Forum, in a thread about the game, when it's still relevant. Your agitation is unwarranted.

[almost normal]

And most games on Kickstarter you can get "the game" with no frills from between 15 and 30 bucks.

Uh, correct? You fail to see what my issue is, because I don't have one. In reference to kickstarting games, I mentioned a 15 dollar price point. Pax chimed in with 'NO. GAMES PRODUCED BY LARGE CORPORATIONS COST 60.' Which is like saying a Honda costs 20k, but to be told you were wrong because a BMW costs 55k.

[Thanos007]

Personally, I see SR:O ripping out the SR universe and game engine where inconvenient to make the easiest, dumbest game to appeal to the most amount of people, and nothing I've seen has shown me otherwise. There would be no better time or place to talk about my thoughts on this then a Shadowrun Forum, in a thread about the game, when it's still relevant. Your agitation is unwarranted.

What have you seen that leads you to believe this?

[_Pax._]

I'm still butthurt over the rise from $50 to $60, [...]

You're kidding ... right? ... right?!?

I mean, seriously. Video game prices have been rising SLOWER than, well, the price for just about everything else on Earth.

I'm not kidding. And it's not just MY opinion.

[Draco18s]

I mean, seriously. Video game prices have been rising SLOWER than, well, the price for just about everything else on Earth.

Oh sure. But I can still bitch about the fact that the reason the price went up was because of consoles underselling the machine and then having expensive distribution medium (i.e. blu-ray which costs like $1 more to make than the equivalent space in DVDs) and charging more for the XBucks/PS3 games than the same game on the PC.

Except that they can't underprice the PC game. So the same game costs the same price, regardless of platform.

Then all the PC game makers go "wait, we can get 10 extra bucks and otherwise do nothing? COUNT ME IN."

It's that last step I object to.