You do the math.., Equipment costs question Options

[Brazila]

Okay, this has been brought up in our group and so I was wondering what everyone else does for this. The question is simply how do you do the math in your games. For instance a kid stealth leg costs 100,000, now let's say you make it alpha grade, and your a troll, what is your total cost? Would it be:
100,000*(200%+25%=225%)=225,000
or would it be :
(100,000*200%)*125%=250,000
Do you add the % multipliers together like 3rd edition D&D or do you apply one get a new base then apply the next? When you get enough multipliers this can make a huge difference.

I mean if your base gear is 100,000 then times 2 for alpha, then say +25% for being a troll, then say it's one of the pieces that is reduced in cost for having multiple cyberlimbs so you get 30% off. This could be either 175,000 or 195,000 depending on the math.

[Austere Emancipa...]

I am of no use whatsoever in this case, so I thought I'd just drop in to commend you for asking a very good question. Got me stumped.

If someone now posts (or has posted before I get this done) a message of type "RTFM", or "Dead Horse Beaten A Dozen Times", I will skull-fuck him/her.

[Eyeless Blond]

It's the second one. Multipliers are applied one after another here. But I'm not sure that you need to add money for troll-modded cyberware, do you?

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Jason Farlander]

[Austere Emancipa...]

The impact was slightly lessened by the fact that I had to hunt through a dozen dictionaries to figure out what "pissy" reall means.

1. unpleasant. 2. mildly drunk. 3. irritable. 4. insignificant
All but 2 apply. It's 4:35 AM, so is that afternoon?

(I'm really sorry for ruining your truly valid thread, Brazila.)

[Connor]

I don't know if it's canon or not, but my first reaction is to take the base ware, make it troll modified, then add the standard alpha/beta/delta-grade price increase on top of it.

[RedmondLarry]

/Edit: Removed my first post. AE wouldn't have liked it.

P.S. Alpha-Grade Kid Stealth legs for a human cost 200,000. If you have to pay more for Troll-modified (which I don't believe), then add 25% to 200,000. Simple when you view it this way.

The reason I believe Trolls don't pay more for their Cyberware is that none of the Archetypes in the book do it. In the Archetypes, Dwarves and Trolls pay more for firearms, armor, and vehicle shops and kits, but it's inconsistent.

Any time you have percentage multipliers, just string them on in any order as multipliers. The result will be the same regardless of the order you put them in.
100,000 x 2.00 x 1.25 x .70

This post has been edited by OurTeam: Apr 16 2004, 05:52 AM

[gknoy]

Agreed on stringing together multipliers.

On why charcters don't pay troll-mod and dwarf-mod for 'ware ... the modstuff applies to "gear", which I don't consider to include 'ware. ;) (No, seriously, I don't think it's covered, but I don't see why wiring synapses to run faster or replacing eyes should require a troll/dwarf mod. And none of the book chars do it, AFAIK.)

Troll/Dwarf mods exist because trolls and dwarves are rarer, and it reflects the need to customize them (or have lines with lower sales volume).

Cyberware, on teh other hand, is pretty custom for your body, as far as making thigns fit. One size arm/leg/spine probably does NOT fit. (Datajacks, eyes, ears, smartlinks, those probably are pretty stock, though.). I imagine that your bone lacing and muscle aug, etc, needs to be custom fit to you to a great extent.

[xizor]

for larger shoes you pay more right?
so i think that because a troll is massive, and will require more and tougher materials to get an equal quality product. even in normal use, the things that a troll uses suffer more strain than a comparable product used by a human.

an example :
a cheap plastic chair will support a 150 pound person just fine, but will break when a 300 pound person sits on it.

which means that i think that cyber wear for a troll, like the Kid Stealth legs should cost 25% more because they are made for a troll.

i also agree with how OurTeam decided to calculate total cost.

[Brazila]

Thanks for the comments. Our group uses the increased cost for cyberware. I mean if it costs more for a troll sized sword, think of the changes that would have to be made to the arm that weilds that sword. Plus cyberlimbs are specific to race, so it seems like it would make sense that the cyberlimb that has a base Str of 8 for being troll sized, would also have a troll sized cost applied to it. Well that is at least how our group does it. I am a pretty big guy, and I am here to tell you that many things in this world cost more for bigger fellows, and not just clothes. Oh and while I am on the subject, If having bioware that makes you eat more doubles your lifestyle cost, then while the hell does a troll not pay way more as well. I mean by the rules, the primary costs of a lifestyle are food, but a troll pays the same as an elf!!!

[Eyeless Blond]

Okay, then, why do dwarves, who are *smaller* than humans and other metas, have a 10% markup? Shouldn't it be a discount, because they're *smaller*? I mean, I can understand the extra charge for gear, but cyberware?

And don't tell me it's because they're stronger than average. If that were so then muscle replacement would cost more for orks and Str 5 humans as well, and that just becomes silly (what happens when someone spend Karma to increase their Str attribute? Does their 'ware suddenly not work?)

[Arethusa]

No, they get a markup because they're deviant. Anything not the size of a standard human— which happens to be the vast majority of metahumanity size— is going to pay a premium. Small people pay less than trolls because trolls aren't just paying for their smaller market and necessary custom fitting, they're paying for substastantially more materials.

[tjn]

And the price difference in men and women's clothes in the real world?

Ehh, the Corps will charge whatever best benefits their bottom line. If the vast public somehow buys the idea that it should cost more, then it will cost more.

[dead_as_elvis]

On a somewhat tangent note, I agree with Brazilla about the troll lifestyle modifier. I know Brazilla, he's not kidding when he says he's a big guy. Not troll sized, of course, but if a troll eats anything like he does, then those normal lifestyles wouldn't cut it. I swear I've seen Brazilla eat a whole midget before.
;)

[Frag-o Delux]

Size doesn't always mean big eater. I have my brother beat by a foot or more taller and easily 200 lbs. He eats 2 or 3 times what I eat at a single meal. I generally eat one meal a day, a few of my friends that would total my wieght if together on the scale, eat 3 to 4 times what I eat in a day. One will eat 5 to 6 full size meals in a day, everyday.

[Brazila]

That is true, size does not always mean bigger eater. However, to get technical, your Kcalorie intake is based on several factors, one of the cheif ones being amount of muscle fiber. While there will always be expections, the +4 to strength that trolls get would mean that they would have a greater need for kcalories regardless of their body.

[Arethusa]

tjn: it's fictional. Men just, on average, tend to buy worse clothes, but when you get to the same level of fashion consciousness, the costs are about the same. And differential past that is there because companies can get away with it culturally.

And Brazila's right about food intake being very dependant on how in shape and how strong you are. It'd be nice if SR's lifestyle rules took this into account.

[Cain]

I believe that Frag's brother is a teenager, which also explains the food intake. Teenage boys can easily consume several thousand calories a day without feeling full, or gaining an ounce of fat.

Anyway, I don't support the racial markup for cyber, since it's already difficult to calculate as is. Also, I don't want to see some munchkin argue that since his headware is human-sized, he should pay less essence. Quite frankly, I'd have to make a case-by-case exemption for each piece of 'ware. It's just not worth it.

[Rev]

You know whats insane, the lifestyle modifier for suprathyroid.

140% just to double your food budget? Ok sure for squatter, and maybe even low, but medium, high, and luxury certainly aren't spending 40% of thier money on food.

Must make you sweat acid or something too so you are always replacing your furniture, clothes, and flooring.


PS kid steatlh cyberlegs aren't worth it anyway, unless house ruled. Way way too expensive.

[Eyeless Blond]