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> Melee Combat without the Str
CrystalBlue
post Jul 30 2012, 07:38 PM
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So I'm trying to help my brother create a character that we're going to play at GenCon this year (in Missions). Because of this, he has to tweak the normal Stealth/Assassin build he's used to by removing the martial arts that made him do cool damage to the bad guys.

Without the martial arts, one is forced to increase Strength to get better damage out of melee (in this case, Blades). Also, without Martial Arts, taking Unarmed is almost pointless unless that's all you do. So what I'm going to try is a 'ninja' build for him and see what we come up with. If anyone here wants to help, please give me your opinions.

Rules for the character:

1.) The character is a Missions character (400 BP, no extra Arsenal rules, no weird races)
2.) The character has to be an elf, since that's what he wants to play
3.) The character has to be speced to be a good with stealth, so I need him to still have good infiltration
4.) The character wants to be good with sword damage, since there's no reason he shouldn't be able to slice people up for as much damage as someone shooting at them does
5.) Character is an adept, so we're using adept build and powers
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Stahlseele
post Jul 30 2012, 07:43 PM
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Max out Agility.
Max out Martial Arts.
Done.

Net-Hits increase Damage as with anything else. Get many hits and you get much damage.
For SWORDS there is only Weapon-Focus for Adepts. Unarmed Combat Adepts are actually better than Melee Weapon Adepts.
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Yerameyahu
post Jul 30 2012, 07:45 PM
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That *is* an interesting scenario: must use sword for great damage, but can't use Strength or Martial Arts. In other challenges, must use a pistol at range, but can't use bullets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Jul 30 2012, 07:47 PM
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Easy, attach a wire to the pistol and use it as a re-useable throwing weapon.
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bannockburn
post Jul 30 2012, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 30 2012, 09:45 PM) *
That *is* an interesting scenario: must use sword for great damage, but can't use Strength or Martial Arts. In other challenges, must use a pistol at range, but can't use bullets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's easy. Throwing mastery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

As to the OP: I find that 3 Str is enough for good damage. Personally, I go with unarmed, critical strike, penetrating strike.
Max out agi, as Stahlseele said, give him a good skill and off you go. Agi will also improve infiltration.
High reaction (+dodge or gymnastics skill) and an initiative booster to get into melee without getting shot up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Jul 30 2012, 07:50 PM
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Or look up the fastest running troll somewhere around these board.
Simply adapt as much as possible to high agility elf instead of high str troll.
You should probably be able to get into reach most of the time.
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Yerameyahu
post Jul 30 2012, 08:04 PM
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So, we've solved the problem: throw the sword.
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bannockburn
post Jul 30 2012, 08:05 PM
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Range is determined by strength (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
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Yerameyahu
post Jul 30 2012, 08:12 PM
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That's okay, this is for melee, remember? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Point Blank yay.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jul 30 2012, 08:17 PM
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*Shakes Head*
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Makki
post Jul 30 2012, 08:17 PM
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Mystic Adept with sustained Elemental Aura adds Force damage as elemental to each melee attack. This also provides some AP. Can also give you Invisibilty for Infiltration.
Big swords like Nodachi and Claymore have a lot of +DV already implemented. Doesn't agree with the stealthy part, though.
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Yerameyahu
post Jul 30 2012, 08:31 PM
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But he's not a mystic adept… and if he were, he could just cast stunbolt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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StealthSigma
post Jul 30 2012, 08:45 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 30 2012, 04:12 PM) *
That's okay, this is for melee, remember? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Point Blank yay.


Even so, at 3 Strength and referring to the chart for improvised throwing weapons....

I would say the closet match would be the ranges for throwing a sword.... 3/6/9/15.
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Yerameyahu
post Jul 30 2012, 09:17 PM
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Which is plenty, given the specification is 'melee range' (0-1m). I'm not saying it makes sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) But it does fit the crazy-restricted spec: use a sword, melee range, no MA, no Str, tons of damage, adept-only.
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UmaroVI
post Jul 30 2012, 09:43 PM
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Under those restrictions, no, you can't. You can make a character who can hit someone with a sword, but you will always be doing so at the expense of doing something much more effective like shooting them.

You can make an alright character if you are willing to compromise on any of 2,4, and 5 (be a troll, be a magician or mystic adept, or use unarmed).
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Yerameyahu
post Jul 30 2012, 09:45 PM
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If I were a stealth assassin, I'd use tasers anyway. Maybe drugs.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jul 30 2012, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jul 30 2012, 02:45 PM) *
If I were a stealth assassin, I'd use tasers anyway. Maybe drugs.


Drugs/Toxins are good... For the Stealth Assassin Type. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Jul 30 2012, 11:11 PM
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Still nothing that works immediately right?
So always time for some alarm buttoning.
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Udoshi
post Jul 30 2012, 11:31 PM
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Why has nobody mentioned Nerve Strike yet? Its hella good.
I mean, sure, its BETTER with the disorient maneuver from martial arts, but a smoke element aura can also add on-hit penalties.

I'd also second the Mystic Adepting. The obvious solution to a 'no strength no martial arts' martial artist is Death Touch.
Seriously.
Force 12 is only 4 drain, that also gives you a free melee and lets you hit anyway on ties. (knockout and shatter are also good)
If you want to play up the crazy chi manipulator aspect, you can always Multicast a Heal with your strikes, and then immediately stop sustaining it: this leaves wounds that can't be Healed by magic, since a healing attempt has already been made.
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Krishach
post Jul 30 2012, 11:35 PM
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Nerve strike doesn't prevent comms though. Drugs actually remain the best option, IMO. Many are potent enough to drop someone with two doses or less, but realistically carry the benefit that they CAN be delivered in such a way that the target is unaware of the issue.

Obviously not all methods of application are subtle, but many can be. Can't call in an alert if you haven't noticed the problem yet.

I am surprised at the hate for decent strength though. It couples with climb, which I assume you'd be using?

Also, if you really must have weapon damage in close combat that is not strength reliant, you could eschew blades, going with stun clubs/weapons, or the spectacularly messy but very lethal mono filament whip.
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Udoshi
post Jul 30 2012, 11:46 PM
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Most methods of attacking someone directly don't prevent comms. Guns don't, spells don't. And even if they did, biomonitors are still an issue.

Really that's a job for a Jammer and a Hacker, neither of which are really tied to any sort of ways to Attack people.
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Umidori
post Jul 31 2012, 12:29 AM
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I personally vouch for Stun Batons.

You could have a strength of 1 and still be dealing 7S with the minimum net hit to connect, easily topping 10S with a strong roll (either from luck or from Suprise making the enemy unable to defend), at half impact armor, and forcing struck biological targets to automatically suffer -2 dice with a chance to Incapacitate them for 2 + Net Hits Combat Turns (even if they stage all the damage down). It's also effective against drones and spirits.

In comparison a sword requires a decent strength to achieve comparable damage, doesn't penetrate armor as well, doesn't offer secondary elemental effects, and deals Physical damage which tends to leave more corpses and earn you more heat and long-term enemies.

Particularly without using Arsenal for better weapons, weapon mods, or martial arts, I'd say Stun Batons are really your best bet. Just be mindful of recharging them - without the battery packs from Arsenal you might have to plug in more frequently than you'd like.

Question - are you using all available sources of Adept Powers, or just the Corebook? Because there are some very nice powers elsewhere.

~Umi
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All4BigGuns
post Jul 31 2012, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 30 2012, 07:29 PM) *
I personally vouch for Stun Batons.

You could have a strength of 1 and still be dealing 7S with the minimum net hit to connect, easily topping 10S with a strong roll (either from luck or from Suprise making the enemy unable to defend), at half impact armor, and forcing struck biological targets to automatically suffer -2 dice with a chance to Incapacitate them for 2 + Net Hits Combat Turns (even if they stage all the damage down). It's also effective against drones and spirits.

In comparison a sword requires a decent strength to achieve comparable damage, doesn't penetrate armor as well, doesn't offer secondary elemental effects, and deals Physical damage which tends to leave more corpses and earn you more heat and long-term enemies.

Particularly without using Arsenal for better weapons, weapon mods, or martial arts, I'd say Stun Batons are really your best bet. Just be mindful of recharging them - without the battery packs from Arsenal you might have to plug in more frequently than you'd like.

Question - are you using all available sources of Adept Powers, or just the Corebook? Because there are some very nice powers elsewhere.

~Umi


For raw damage and not leaving bodies, stun batons would be better, but the OP did say 'assassin' and that kinda would need to use non-stun weapons.
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Yerameyahu
post Jul 31 2012, 01:09 AM
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That, and 'high damage with a sword' was a requirement.
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Critias
post Jul 31 2012, 01:38 AM
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Don't forget called shots for extra damage. It's something thematically appropriate AND pretty effective (-4 dice for +4 damage levels is pretty danged good).
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