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> Fetishes, One time use?
almost normal
post Aug 3 2012, 02:54 AM
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It's annoyed me for some time at how cheap and available a fetish seems to be, especially for how powerful they are.

While making a character in PACKS however, I noticed something interesting; Deluxe Mage Gear gives you more fetishes then you could ever possibly use.

Specifically, it allots 19 Fetishes. Even if you were to use one fetish per spell, You'd need a starting magic of 6, and then learn SEVEN more spells in game!

Is it possible that RAI might have been to make these extremely underpriced tools one time use only, thus justifying their existence at such a low cost?
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Glyph
post Aug 3 2012, 03:06 AM
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It wouldn't have called them "reusable", then. Having spares makes sense for a mage because they are basically carrying these items into combat zones, where they are just as susceptible to damage as any other gear. I wouldn't read too much into the PACKS kits; multiples of stuff is the norm for them.
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phlapjack77
post Aug 3 2012, 03:10 AM
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I kind of see your point, but I don't see that fetishes are so cheap. 500 for a healing one, 300 for manipulation, 200 for combat - this gets expensive pretty fast if the mage casts any spells at all using these as one-timers. Limited spells can't be cast without the fetish. If fetishes were one-time-only, maybe also need to add the idea that a spell can be cast with or without a fetish, so a fetish can be used when a mage really needs to make sure he doesn't take (a lot of) drain.

Plus as Glyph said, I can see the point of having spares. Many characters I make have one set for carrying on the mage's person, another set at their primary home, maybe another set at their bolt-hole...
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 3 2012, 03:17 AM
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I mean, how many spells are you talking about? If they're reusable, that's pocket change even if it's 500¥ * 12 spells. If they *were* disposable, then yes, that 'ammo' would add up kinda fast. Even a Full Burst of Ex-Ex is only 100¥, after all. So… seems like a good balance. Cheap, but not disposable-cheap.
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almost normal
post Aug 3 2012, 03:30 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 2 2012, 11:17 PM) *
I mean, how many spells are you talking about? If they're reusable, that's pocket change even if it's 500¥ * 12 spells.


Right. Assuming you've got 6 spells, which is enough to cover all your bases with a fluff spell or two, It'd take one run to have all the fetishes you'd ever need for you, your safehouse, and your pet cat. One run for a permanent +2 bonus to avoid the only real drawback of mages is pretty damn crazy. Making them one shot items, I dunno, It would make a lot of sense to me.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 3 2012, 03:36 AM
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It's not a bad house rule. You might have to tweak the prices, or maybe not… it depends on your players. Playtest.

Ooh, maybe they have a chance of breaking on use, based on Force. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Sort of half-disposable.
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Aerospider
post Aug 3 2012, 08:43 AM
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And here's me allowing my players to use the same fetish for multiple spells, since IIRC exclusivity isn't mentioned.

I don't see it as a big concern though. Sure, drain is the key balancing factor for SR magic, but we're only talking two dice and the prices are comparable to those of armour. And if you lose your armour you're not suddenly incapable of firing your gun.
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Umidori
post Aug 3 2012, 09:48 AM
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I know it's hardly any kind of authority on actual RAW or RAI, but I can't help but be influenced by the SNES adaptation of SR. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

There, when you got your fetishes for your spells (what would be limited spells in actual SR), they were freely reuseable. You just needed to have them in your inventory to benefit from them.

~Umi
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Thanee
post Aug 3 2012, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 3 2012, 10:43 AM) *
And here's me allowing my players to use the same fetish for multiple spells, since IIRC exclusivity isn't mentioned.


And that is perfectly correct.

QUOTE
Fetishes are available for sale from talismongers or other magicians, and are made for a specific category of spells (combat, detection, and so on). A given fetish can only be used for spells of that category.


Previous editions had one-use fetishes and reusable fetishes (with a lesser bonus).

But in SR4 there are only the reusable fetishes.

QUOTE
fetishes—reusable objects with minor enchantments appropriate to the magician’s tradition.


Bye
Thanee
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 3 2012, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (Aerospider @ Aug 3 2012, 01:43 AM) *
And here's me allowing my players to use the same fetish for multiple spells, since IIRC exclusivity isn't mentioned.

I don't see it as a big concern though. Sure, drain is the key balancing factor for SR magic, but we're only talking two dice and the prices are comparable to those of armour. And if you lose your armour you're not suddenly incapable of firing your gun.


Indeed, as it should be... The fact that you need the Fetish to cast the spell is its own drawback. Fetish link all your spells, and then get captured. No Fetish, no Spell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Seems like a good thing to "Call Shot" on, if you notice it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Speed Wraith
post Aug 3 2012, 01:41 PM
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They couldn't pay me to use 'em.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 3 2012, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Aug 3 2012, 06:41 AM) *
They couldn't pay me to use 'em.


I have a few concepts that use them. For some, it makes sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 3 2012, 02:02 PM
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It depends on how often you get captured and lose your stuff. Some people beat on this point a lot, but it's never happened to my characters. It just depends.
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Kesendeja
post Aug 3 2012, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 3 2012, 10:02 AM) *
It depends on how often you get captured and lose your stuff. Some people beat on this point a lot, but it's never happened to my characters. It just depends.


In twenty three years of gaming its happened exactly twice.

But I agree that the cost of fetishes seems a bit cheep, but don't favor the idea of making them disposable. Maybe up the cost or give them a chance of failing on overcasting and needing to be replaced.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 3 2012, 02:15 PM
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Yeah, it would amuse me. Perhaps an Edge-based test?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 3 2012, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 3 2012, 07:02 AM) *
It depends on how often you get captured and lose your stuff. Some people beat on this point a lot, but it's never happened to my characters. It just depends.


Happens occasionally at our table.
Enough that we plan for it.

Of course, most of the Characters at our table do not fight to the death, either. A disturbing trend that I have seen at other tables. *shrug*
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Thanee
post Aug 3 2012, 02:49 PM
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When I use limited spells, I generally have some key spells (usually also some with low Drain Values) without the fetish-limit, so you are still capable of doing something, even without them.

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Thanee
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 3 2012, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Aug 3 2012, 07:49 AM) *
When I use limited spells, I generally have some key spells (usually also some with low Drain Values) without the fetish-limit, so you are still capable of doing something, even without them.

Bye
Thanee


That is usually how I do it too. I usually only use fetishes forf higher Drain Spells, most of the time. Generally, anything with +2 or More to the Drain. I also use a lot of "Self Only" Limited Spells (Only Caster Benefits, generally Detection and Health Categories, though occasionally Manipulation) as well. Helps with the Drain, if I am not playing a Buffing Mage, which I do not generally play.
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Speed Wraith
post Aug 3 2012, 03:04 PM
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Yeah, I am a bit reactionary there. The frequency of being without gear is far lower than my expectation of being without gear. I could possibly see myself using them under certain circumstances or with a specific character concept in mind, but in general, I just don't like the possibility of being cut off from what is ordinarily an innate ability, even if the chance of that is low. Besides which, the more magically active gear you have to juggle, the worse it can be for you. One of the appeals to magicians for me is the idea that I don't need much beyond armor and a few burners.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 3 2012, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Aug 3 2012, 08:04 AM) *
Yeah, I am a bit reactionary there. The frequency of being without gear is far lower than my expectation of being without gear. I could possibly see myself using them under certain circumstances or with a specific character concept in mind, but in general, I just don't like the possibility of being cut off from what is ordinarily an innate ability, even if the chance of that is low. Besides which, the more magically active gear you have to juggle, the worse it can be for you. One of the appeals to magicians for me is the idea that I don't need much beyond armor and a few burners.


I get that. Probably 2/3 of my magician characters do not take advantage of the Fetish option (or do so on a Very Limited basis). The other 1/3 are generally designed with that particular option in mind. All depends upon the concept I have going in to character creation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Umidori
post Aug 3 2012, 03:49 PM
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Concepts like a pornomancer with the mass orgasm spell, limited such that it requires a dildo fetish AND a geas of being aroused? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 3 2012, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 3 2012, 09:49 AM) *
Concepts like a pornomancer with the mass orgasm spell, limited such that it requires a dildo fetish AND a geas of being aroused? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi


*Shakes Head* Horrible... Just Horrible...
Sadly, we had one of these at our table recently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
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Cain
post Aug 4 2012, 10:17 AM
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Check me on this, but aren't fetishes visible to astral perception? So if you're trying to sneak into a place with good astral security (like an assensing mage or spirits) as if you're Joe Mundane, wouldn't carrying those fetishes give you away?

I've designed characters both with and without fetishes, and while nice, their bonus can be limited if you're forced to go into a heavy disguise.

In past editions, they had "fetish foci"-- one shot foci that added more dice, but were also expensive. While cheaper than normal foci, the cost added up quickly if you relied on them too much. That might be a good compromise to start with: you have both one shot and reusable fetishes; the one shot provides a higher bonus and costs less, but the price adds up quickly.
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post Aug 4 2012, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (almost normal @ Aug 2 2012, 09:54 PM) *
Specifically, it allots 19 Fetishes. Even if you were to use one fetish per spell, You'd need a starting magic of 6, and then learn SEVEN more spells in game!

[nitpick]
Starting spells are based off of your higher Spellcasting or Ritual Spellcasting, not Magic rating.
[/nitpick]

I'd only take fetishes on duplicate spells. The inability to cast a spell because I lack gear is unsettling.
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Umidori
post Aug 4 2012, 04:10 PM
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Is the inability to fire bullets because you lack a gun unsettling?

Some people rely on their guns just as much as others rely on their spells. But I think mage players are so used to having the power of a gun, but with the benefits of not needing ammo or even a weapon in their hand, and then when they lose that power they feel more wronged than the gun user would.

If a gun bunny is forced into a situation where they lack their firearms, they feel vulnerable, but they can accept the situation because deep down they always knew that their guns could be taken from them. But when a mage loses their magic, either through a broken gaes, a missing fetish, or even just background count, they feel not only vulnerable, but as if they've been robbed of something.

It's an interesting psychological effect, no?

~Umi
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