Do Foci Stack? Options

[CrystalBlue]

So I have a mage that has a few foci that I've bought and bound and I'm wondering what bonuses will stack with each other. I'm sure there are some that won't, so I'll need some guidance on this.

Level 2 Power Focus
Level 3 Counterspelling (Combat) Focus
Level 3 Summmoning (Beast) Focus

Given that, do I get a +2 to everything and a +5 to both Counterspelling Combat spells and +5 to Summoning Beast spirits?

Also, I know you can only have a number of foci active equal to your Logic rating, but lets say I took another one (I only have 3 logic). If that were the case, could I still have it bound and not active? And then could I turn them on and off when I need them? What would the action be to turn foci on and off?

[Stahlseele]

Only one Focus per Test, if i remember correctly.

[KarmaInferno]

Yah, you can only use one focus in any particular:

"Regardless of the number of foci a magician may possess, only one focus may add its Force to any single dice pool."
-SR4A page 199



-k

[Bigity]

So you could, add dice for one test with one focus, and then add dice to the drain test with another.

So there is some advantage to two applicable foci.

[Aria]

I thought foci couldn't be added to drain now? Except the centering focus obviously...?!?

[Stahlseele]

Hmm, not sure how that works under SR4 . . And hwo Foci could ever be relevant to the Drain-Code.
Drain pool is what? Magic Attribute + charisma, logic or willpower?
Seeing how a Power-Focus does NOT ADD DIRECTLY TO MAGIC ATTRIBUTE ANYMORE (as it did in SR3) it can not be added to this.
The only way a Focus could help with Drain would be if the Drain-Attribute was raised by a Spell focused through a sustaining focus.
Or am i missing something here?

[CrystalBlue]

Ok. So having a power focus and a summoning focus is worthless, I should just try and grab a power 3 focus for now. I'll still need the counterspelling focus and sustaining focus I was going to pick up, though.

[Aerospider]

Hmm, not sure how that works under SR4 . . And hwo Foci could ever be relevant to the Drain-Code.
Drain pool is what? Magic Attribute + charisma, logic or willpower?
Seeing how a Power-Focus does NOT ADD DIRECTLY TO MAGIC ATTRIBUTE ANYMORE (as it did in SR3) it can not be added to this.
The only way a Focus could help with Drain would be if the Drain-Attribute was raised by a Spell focused through a sustaining focus.
Or am i missing something here?

Nope, drain is Willpower plus Charisma, Intuition or Logic depending on tradition.
It is quite true, though, that none of the standard foci types help with drain directly.

[Bigity]

Nope, drain is Willpower plus Charisma, Intuition or Logic depending on tradition.
It is quite true, though, that none of the standard foci types help with drain directly.

Well, sorry for the misinformation, that's what I get for not checking the new crap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Krishach]

You would also have to have the Centering Metamagic to use a Centering Foci, would you not?

Power Foci no longer add to the magic attribute dice pool when using Counterspelling either, which is a big nerf from previous editions. So, sustaining and weapon foci aside, to add to all sorcery functions and directly related (drain), you need 3 foci minimum: Power, Centering, and Counterspelling.

You can combine foci if you care to research a new formula, but in practice I think all this does is reduce the total number of Foci you are technically using. Useful if you are pressing your max cap, but otherwise seems unhelpful, since it talks only about combining different functions.

[Stahlseele]

Now for the Combiner Question:
Devastator or Defensor?

Also: Can you use a combined Focus for the Spellcasting and then the Drain-Resistance of the same spell, or does that not work because the Drain is the Result from the Spellcasting for which you had already used that same Focus?

[Krishach]

All it says is that more than one foci cannot add to a single dice pool. Since those are two different pools, I see no reason why a combined foci couldn't do this. I just see little reason to combine foci in the first place. The Karma cost can be astronomical.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So you could, add dice for one test with one focus, and then add dice to the drain test with another.

So there is some advantage to two applicable foci.

Standard Foci DO NOT ADD TO DRAIN in SR4.

EDIT: Damn, those damned Ninja's again. Guess that is what I get for taking a nap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Udoshi]

Yah, you can only use one focus in any particular:

"Regardless of the number of foci a magician may possess, only one focus may add its Force to any single dice pool."
-SR4A page 199

You know, I just realized that I stuck that quote of yours in my sig so many years ago, and never thanked you for it.
So have a way to break the one-focus restriction on me. Enjoy. Do something silly with it.


Stacked Foci: it is possible to combine two or more types of foci into a "stacked focus". The effective force of the focus is equal to the sum of the ratings of the different foci. A character requires a seperate focus formula to create a stacked focus 0 she cannot simply use focus formulae for two or more different foci. The cost to bind a stacked focus is equal to the sum of the cost to bind the different focus types at the given force.
-Street Magic page 84

A Power Focus 4/Spellcasting Category 2 focus at start is expensive, but rules. A Weapon Foci 1 added on there has the nice advantage of letting you take the entire thing astral with you as a copy of itself.

[Yerameyahu]

Um. Are you suggesting that a stacked focus doesn't count as two foci for this rule?

[Udoshi]

One focus is one focus, dude. The rule only cares about the # of items, not how powerful they are.

The rule that karma quoted refers only the the number of foci - since multifoci were impossible then.

No matter which way you cut it, a katana that is a power focus 4/weapon focus 1 is still one focus. that is to say, a single force 5 stacked focus.

[Yerameyahu]

It's also 2 totally separate foci, as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) 'The rule' doesn't care about anything, because it's not alive. That's why we have GMs and brains.

[Neraph]

One focus is one focus, dude. The rule only cares about the # of items, not how powerful they are.

The rule that karma quoted refers only the the number of foci - since multifoci were impossible then.

No matter which way you cut it, a katana that is a power focus 4/weapon focus 1 is still one focus. that is to say, a single force 5 stacked focus.

I'll toss my chips in with you. That's the whole point of stacked foci, otherwise they wouldn't have used the word "combined" in the description.

In SR4, can you withhold dice from a Sorcery or Spellcasting Test and use those dice instead to resist Drain, as you could in SR3?

This rule was dropped in SR4—it was a special case rule that didn’t apply to any other mechanics in the game. If you happen to like it, you can of course continue to use it in your own games as a house rule. The entry for the Spellcasting Focus in SR4 had an incorrect reference to this rule that was corrected in SR4A.

[Yerameyahu]

I submit that there is no point of stacked foci, personally. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I submit that there is no point of stacked foci, personally. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have used them a time or two when the concept demanded it. They do cut down on the Foci Addiction threshold, as the stacked Foci is only 1 Focus for purposes of the limits.

[Mäx]

A Power Focus 4/Spellcasting Category 2 focus at start is expensive, but rules.

How exactly does it rule, it's a more expensive power foucus 4 that does nothing a normal one doesn't do.

[ikarinokami]

I submit that there is no point of stacked foci, personally. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

there are useful if your logic is low 2-4.

you are limited to your logic score in active foci.

you would idealy like to have

2 health sustaining foci- increase atttribute and increase reflex

1 sustaining illusion foci- for either improve invis or physical mask

1 sustaining maniplulataion - levitation

1- detection- detect life

1- power foci

1- centering foci

1 shielding foci


being able to stack the advanced foci wth a sustaining foci saves valuble logic space

[UmaroVI]

How exactly does it rule, it's a more expensive power foucus 4 that does nothing a normal one doesn't do.

I think Udoshi is claiming that the rule saying you can't apply more than one foci bonus to a dice pool doesn't apply to stacked foci, because they are considered "one focus." So you can have a Stacked focus that is a Force 2 Power Focus/Force 2 Power Focus/Force 2 Power Focus/etc to infinity, and it is "one focus" so you can apply all the bonuses to your spells. This is of course nonsense.

Stacked Foci are by no means worthless Yeremeyahu. There are several reasons to use them:

1) You are limited to Logic active foci at a time. If you have, say, Logic 2, this lets you cram in more foci.

2) It's easier to hide with Extended Masking, since it only has one aura, you can hide it at a lower initiate grade.

3) If you need to deactivate and reactivate it to pass through a ward, it's only one action to turn it on.

Unfortunately, the Foci Addiction rules actually just care about total force, not about number of foci, so it doesn't help there.

[Krishach]

While true, I still don't think it's something to do unless you absolutely need to. Gaining another point in logic if you're 2-4 is cheaper than binding some of those stacked Foci.

[UmaroVI]

The stacking effect is free. It costs the same to bind a Shielding 4/Centering 4 stacked focus as it does to bond a Shielding 4 focus and then, separately, a Centering 4 focus. It just forces you to buy the foci and bond them as a "lump sum."