Vehicles in vehicles, For drones it's easy Options

[Talia Invierno]

For standard drones, CFs required for storage are always among the information given.

I'd been hoping that Riggers 3 would have the same information for actual vehicles stored within vehicles, but nowhere could I find it. It's got to be a common need. For me specifically and currently, I'm trying to temp-store two motorcycles inside a (stretched) RV-van. For the future, I can see a car or even that van being stored within a trailer.

It's even relevant to our aircraft carrier abstract discussion: how many fighters are kept standardly below deck? How many can be, in any given size of ship?

Help?

(Just got access to R3. Can you tell? :P )

[A Clockwork Lime]

The same rules are used for storing vehicles. :) Just don't use the "Easy Breakdown" part unless, obviously, the vehicle is designed for that -- like a fixed-wing aircraft designed to be placed on an aircraft carrier.

[Talia Invierno]

Yes, but how many CFs do various vehicles require?

[A Clockwork Lime]

They list the ratio somewhere in Rigger 3. Gimme a minute and I'll find it.

Rigger 3, page 62, Drone Storage Requirements. "An assembled [vehicle] requires a storage space in CF equal to [(Body + 1.5) x Body], rounded down."

Note that a drone is just a vehicle with Sensors 1 and a Drone Pilot, so it applies to all vehicles. Why they specified drone is a mystery. :)

[Talia Invierno]

[A Clockwork Lime]

People Space is entirely different than storage space. People Space includes having all the room you need to move around and go about your business comfortably. "Storage Space" for a human is just 6 CF -- the amount of space that comes with a bucket seat.

[Talia Invierno]

Sorry, it still doesn't make sense. How do you "store down" an RV ... which is already supposed to have as standard within its chassis (per the chassis table), what, nearly 200 CF of "people space"? The formula is supposed to apply to assembled vehicles, so it can't be as simple as just winding down the hardtop (even if such were possible).

Edit: fyi, for the immediate, what I'm trying to do is to work out the R3-revised details of the "putter-mobile", which is a base RV-van, also with an electronics bay and darkroom, and finally with room for two motorcycles for ranging or serious speed, along with their support equipment. (Yes, space is tight. This chassis was in-factory designed as stretched to begin with.) There's other details, but they're less relevant to space. So for now, I'm really needing to know how much CF the two motorcycles will absolutely require - allowing space to work on them, which I'm R3-interpreting as an (additional) mechanical shop. It's intended as a full mobile base.

Down the road, the whole contraption might be stuck into a trailer, which itself then will be factory-designed to find space for yet other things.

[A Clockwork Lime]

Oh, I see whatcha mean.

Yeah, that's one of those weird rules things. No way around it. You could always change the storage requirement to [(Body x Body) + Original CF of the vehicle] or something. Adds a lot more bookkeeping (especially since you have to calculate how much CF all the base vehicles had to begin with as opposed to storage CF), but it gets around that rulesburp I guess.

[Talia Invierno]

Yes to the rules-burp, I'd really been hoping R3 would cover that! (Haven't they seen Knight Rider? :D )

I might need to adopt something like your equation as a stopgap - although that might end up becoming an even worse trade-off for an RV (v. van) inside a trailer later on, simply because the RV concentrates on maximising long-term people-accessible space, and not because of size per se. (Ick. And sigh.)

[blakkie]

You could do approximate dimensions for the vehicle you are trying to load, and the one you are loading onto. Remember that one CF is approximately .125m3, so if your RV has 200 CF storage space for cargo that is 25m3, which will likely translate to about 2m high, 3.5m wide, by 3.6m long. You could park a Jackrabbit in there. 8)

For RVs you could strip out the kitchen/bunks, or even drop the bike into the "living area" if you have enough room. You couldn't call it a living area while the bike was in there, but pull the bike out and you are back to a home away from home.

[Talia Invierno]

Strictly dealing in terms of dimensions, then?

btw as a mobile base, it does require kitchen/bunks/basic hygiene facilities, but most of that's already been redesigned to the minimum I can conceive as possible - the current bunks are folding bench variants, and most of the rest is now basically a divider between the driving area and the back. Personal storage space is "under the counter" and similar: cabinets designed to optimise formerly "waste" space. Incidental tables and such are completely gone. It's not what you might call comfortable, but for at least the next half-year, it's home.

So what is the size (volume) and weight of the various types of motorcycle chassis[es?]? Most of the other types of chassis were given, but those were omitted from the descriptions. Given load parameters and limitations, it's relevant!

[Moonstone Spider]

[quote = A Clockwork Lime]Rigger 3, page 62, Drone Storage Requirements. "An assembled [vehicle] requires a storage space in CF equal to [(Body + 1.5) x Body], rounded down."[/quote]
Hey, that means a Kanmushi Arachnoid Drone (0 Body) doesn't take up any CF at all. Kewl, I can fit an infinite number of them in my pockets.

And hey, a Redball Express can fit inside another Redball Express!

And I don't even want to think about Zeppelins, which have 8 body (76 CF to store) and can carry 150CF.

[blakkie]

To paraphrase Barbossa from Pirates of the Caribbean: the Rigger 3 sourcebook is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Dumpshock, Miss Spider.

:spin:

Ya, the storage rules are very wack as they are using one abstract concept, Body, to determine capacity of another abstract concept, CF. The tried to codify and unify the process of fitting the vehicles in, but frankly made it a worse mess than just letting the GM and players figure it out by doing rough diagrams of vehicle dimensions and layouts.

[Nikoli]

They need some sort of storage multiplier, like a program. base formulae then multiplied for storage if it's larger than a typical unmannable drone.

[A Clockwork Lime]

Don't bitch at the messenger. :)

If you want even more insanity, consider this. According to State of the Art: 2063 (p. 75) there's approximately 250 ECU in 0.1 CF. Thus, a single CF of space is enough to hold in excess of (according to Man & Machine p. 37) approximately 835 full-size table top computers, or approximately 5,000 in a typical human being-sized (6 CF) object. Yet if you go by Rigger 3 (p. 146), you can only fit two (twelve in a human) into that same space.

It's maaaaaaaagic.

[Nikoli]

and 1 CF can hold, what 3000 rnds of bleted HMG ammo?

[TinkerGnome]

The rules on vehicle size also includes a caveat that the GM should include a multiplier based on the particluar vehicle, IIRC. It just doesn't give guidelines for it.

[Talia Invierno]

And weights of the different chassis(es) of motorcycles were needed as well ...?

But thanks to the messenger :D and everyone else for what's been thought out thus far. I need everything I can get, here.

[Lindt]

[A Clockwork Lime]

It also means you can cram 6,000 mini-grenades inside a human dummy. <nods sagely>

But that's just using Rigger 3 rules. Assuming a mini-grenade is about the size of a Light Pistol as far as area goes, and you can fit 15,000 in the same space if you call 'em ECUs instead.

[xizor]

the vehicle on this site sounds very similar to what you describe, i thought you might want a reference
draco

i went for a ride in it once, it was really nice 8)

[Drain Brain]

[Kanada Ten]

That Draco is like straight out of the Wild Thornberrys.

Doesn't the rules for aircraft hangers have something similar to the drone storage, only [(Body + 5) x Body]?

[TechnoDruid]

I sent FASA an e-mail about this way back in the day... And the response I got was this:

If I wanted to carry a vehicle in an enclosed trailer, how much CF would the vehicle take up? Is there a different equation than the one for calculating drone storage?

There isn't. Use the same drone storage formula on p. 62 of R3 (CF = [Body + 1.5] x Body, rounded down). Of course, since there is wide variation of vehicle shapes and sizes even in the same Body range, you should feel free to modify it on the upwards side, anywhere from a factor of 2x to 10x.

That was taken straight of the FAQ page of www.shadowrunrpg.com
Enjoy.

[hobgoblin]

gah, there goes the internal logic :(

while i love the setting and all that it seems that SR is cursed to allways have a problem when it comes to internal logic that is well, logical...