Spell Weapons, Something been kicking about Options

[Lansdren]

Ok been kicking about a idea for a spell that can call a weapon into being.


Now yes magic cannot call real matter into being but it can call into being effects that are very much like real matter.

Currently a mage could if he wanted to cover himself in a elemental aura and sustain it causing quite alot of damage to someone in unarmed combat.

Using that as a base with a couple of variations I think we can have a fairly balanced weapon version.

My current thought is add a threashold for the type of weapon but otherwise keep the same spell so it would be something like this

[Elemental] Weapon
Type - P Range - Touch Duration - S DV - (F/2)+3 (yes I know touch spells get less drain but I think this deserves it)
Knife - Theshold 1 = Range 0 knife DV (f/2)+net hits AP-half
Sword - Theshold 2 = Range 1 sword DV (f/2)+net hits AP-half
Longsword / Polearm - Theshold 2 = Range 2 Longsword / Polearm DV (f/2)+net hits AP-half

Example The Bladed Mage casts Fire Weapon at F4 to create a fire dagger he gets 4 hits forming a small dagger made of gree flame in one hand. He takes the five drain and suffers 1 stun but otherwise is fine. The dagger has stats of DV5 AP -half and will last as long as it is sustained.



This does give a situation where you can sacrifice damage for range, and lets a mage use a melee weapon skill with magic and if he has a sustaining focus he also gets to ignore the -2 for sustaining.

What do you guys think?

[Neraph]

This has cropped up a couple times over the years. What I've said before is that you can simply take Elemental Aura, remove like 2 Drain from it, and remove the retaliation effect from it. Alternatively, you can have a tradition that's summoned spirits take the form of weapons and armor (a-la daedric items) or use Calling rules to add such spirits to any tradition.

Your idea is neat in that you have a threshold determining weapon type.

[Yerameyahu]

What I've said before is that you can simply take Elemental Aura, remove like 2 Drain from it, and remove the retaliation effect from it.

Yeah, this is nearly there already. Doesn't Aura apply to any held weapons as well? So the difference is only that they don't have to carry the knife. If they're in melee, they probably do want the retaliation effect.

I'm not saying a 'virtual' weapon spell isn't useful, it's just so barely different.

[VykosDarkSoul]

[Elemental] Weapon
Type - P Range - Touch Duration - S DV - (F/2)+3 (yes I know touch spells get less drain but I think this deserves it)
Longsword / Polearm - Theshold 2 = Range 2 Longsword / Polearm DV (f/2)+net hits AP-half

What do you guys think?

Lightsaber!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dakka Dakka]

Lightsaber!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Been there, done that.

[Marwynn]

I like this idea. What if each weapon type (in general) was its own spell. [Elemental] Blade, [Elemental] Club, [Elemental] "Unarmed", [Elemental] Two-Handed Blade, etc.

Too restricting?

[SpellBinder]

What I've said before is that you can simply take Elemental Aura, remove like 2 Drain from it, and remove the retaliation effect from it.

How about changing the range from LOS to Touch, and make the spell Very Restrictive to apply to the caster only? You still get the retaliation and elemental effects and the spell becomes (F/2)-1 for drain for the hand-to-hand mage. I call it [Elemental] Armor.

[Udoshi]

How about changing the range from LOS to Touch, and make the spell Very Restrictive to apply to the caster only? You still get the retaliation and elemental effects and the spell becomes (F/2)-1 for drain for the hand-to-hand mage. I call it [Elemental] Armor.

That's what I was going to suggest myself, actually.

I would probably take out the retaliation aura for more drain, possibly in exchange for AP=Force, and a reach of 1, and the ability to choose a weapon type/skill when you cast/learn it.

[Dakka Dakka]

I would probably take out the retaliation aura for more drain, possibly in exchange for AP=Force, and a reach of 1, and the ability to choose a weapon type/skill when you cast/learn it.

I guess you meant AP=-Force otherwise the AP would get worse with higher Force. Even with AP=-Force it would be worse than standard elemental effects (AP=-half impact amror) against all but the flimsiest armors.

[DMiller]

I like it. My suggestion would be stay with the AP= -half (due to the elemental effects), make the threshold equal to 1+Reach (max reach of 2) and weapon damage of (Force/2) is good, but I think I might only add +1 per 2 net successes otherwise you could end up with a dagger (reach 0) that is 8P –half AP from a starter mage without overcasting. YIKES!

The form of the weapon should be adjustable, chosen when the spell is cast. Range of touch is fine, that way the mage could actually "give" someone a sword or club, or whatever they use as their melee weapon of choice.

Drain of (Force/2)+3 sounds okay for this as well.

Of course all this is only my opinion, and we all know about those. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

-D

[Dakka Dakka]

Not again extra drain for good castings. What's the problem with 8P AP -half? A monowhip has a base damage of 9P AP-4, a Full burst with SnS is 15S(e).

[Yerameyahu]

Remember that the actual comparison should be this against [Element] Aura, which already stacks onto your natural unarmed or melee weapon DV. I guess that can range anywhere from about 2+hits to well above 10+hits (and grants the 1/2 Impact effect)?

[SpellBinder]

Or AP +5 or no armor absorption at all, depending on the chosen element.

And I'd also be fine with someone taking an old car's radio antenna and whipping it around like it's a fraggin' claymore with an [Elemental] Aura spell on to do most of the damage. Heck, I think it' be hilarious if a magician had like a collapsing pointer wand that was a stacked Weapon/Manipulation Sustaining focus to do this with.

[Dakka Dakka]

Heck, I think it' be hilarious if a magician had like a collapsing pointer wand that was a stacked Weapon/Manipulation Sustaining focus to do this with.

I agree.

[Udoshi]

I guess you meant AP=-Force otherwise the AP would get worse with higher Force. Even with AP=-Force it would be worse than standard elemental effects (AP=-half impact amror) against all but the flimsiest armors.

Yes, that's right.

However, I was assuming there could be weapon spells that didn't have an element to go with them. I reread later and upon second consideration, an AP value = -force and ap half from an element is kinda op.

And I'd also be fine with someone taking an old car's radio antenna and whipping it around like it's a fraggin' claymore with an [Elemental] Aura spell on to do most of the damage. Heck, I think it' be hilarious if a magician had like a collapsing pointer wand that was a stacked Weapon/Manipulation Sustaining focus to do this with.

Our GM is fond of Excalibat. The essence of excalibur reincarnated and ended up in the wrong weapon. A humble baseball bat that hits light a truck.

[DMiller]

Not again extra drain for good castings. What's the problem with 8P AP -half? A monowhip has a base damage of 9P AP-4, a Full burst with SnS is 15S(e).

I was assuming that since you have created an actual weapon, that you were still adding (STR/2) to the damage. I have a minor issue with a dagger that can cut an APC in half is all. The best daggers in the game are only (S/2)+2 I think (AFB ATM), so a completly hidden and unfindable weapon that does (S/2)+8P -half AP, sounds a little OP to me. Of course if you play in a game where the characters are killing great dragons as mooks, then this is probably on the weak side. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-D

[Yerameyahu]

Or AP +5 or no armor absorption at all, depending on the chosen element.

Arguably, the spell does 1/2 Impact no matter what:

Attacks are treated as Cold, Electricity, Fire, or some other elemental damage (see p. 155, SR4, and pp. 164–165 of this book), as appropriate to the aura, and are resisted with half Impact armor.

I don't particularly care and would consider this a typo, of course. Either way, it's beside the point I was making. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SpellBinder]

Was referring to the Metal and Smoke & Sound elements, respectively. Metal doesn't mention it's half AP and specifically says it's +2 AP (or you can take it as +5 if you lump it in with the flechette errata like I keep thinking), while Smoke and Sound both directly state that armor is ineffective (with different gear that provides protection in its place). I'd think these would also apply with an [Elemental] Aura spell, but however you wanna do it is fine. Likely the spell and extra elements were written by two different people, and the editor failed to catch this.

[Neraph]

Arguably, the spell does 1/2 Impact no matter what: I don't particularly care and would consider this a typo, of course. Either way, it's beside the point I was making. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Careful, you're starting to sound like me.

[Yerameyahu]

Hehe. I was preempting you!