Does water have a barrier rating, an official one? Options

[Bearclaw]

I'm building a fishing vessel and a couple of drones with wide band radar seemed like just the ticket to finding the fish.
So, I need a barrier rating for radar, not shooting a bullet through it.

[Manunancy]

As far as i know radar sucks royally for looking through water - you'd better use a sonar (and the sonar sucks above it, so you'd better use both)

[Bearclaw]

You have to be touching the water to use sonar under the water.

[KarmaInferno]

Water soaks up radar like a sponge.

Sonar is about the only real option.

It's that way in the game, it's that way in real life as well.




-k

[Bearclaw]

I don't think water soaks up radar better than concrete, does it?
Rating 4 Ultra-Wide band radar will penetrate 20 points of barrier rating.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I don't think water soaks up radar better than concrete, does it?
Rating 4 Ultra-Wide band radar will penetrate 20 points of barrier rating.

And if you were talking about, say, four feet of water suspended in mid-air, then sure, Rating 4 Ultra-Wide Band Radar might still work.

You're talking about the frigging ocean. A Rating 4 ultra-wide-band radar will probably get you a good four, six feet of readings.


The ocean's known for being a mite deeper than that.

[Yerameyahu]

… Why do you even need to find fish? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Speed Wraith]

… Why do you even need to find fish? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm assuming he doesn't need to find fish, so much as look like he's out looking for fish (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[SpellBinder]

I don't think water soaks up radar better than concrete, does it?
Rating 4 Ultra-Wide band radar will penetrate 20 points of barrier rating.

Found this via google: http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae456.cfm

A little outside research can sometimes do wonders for in-game application.

[Bearclaw]

Yea, just need to look good. Of course, if there's a bunch of fish in the hold, the whole thing looks a lot more real. Especially when the smuggler compartments are in the bottom of the hold. Get 2 tons of fish on top and the USCG isn't finding anything. That will also stop the astral snoop.

[Bearclaw]

Found this via google: http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae456.cfm

A little outside research can sometimes do wonders for in-game application.

Good link, thanks.
Sadly, it doesn't help.
I'm not expecting it to map the deep ocean floor. I'm trying to locate salmon or tuna 1 - 50 meters below the surface.

[KarmaInferno]

Water stops radar-frequency radio waves cold within just a few feet.

If the fish are within that range, then maybe yes, you can use radar to find them.

Then again, at that point you could just look using your eyes.





-k

[Jaid]

Then again, at that point you could just look using your eyes.

-k

psh. using your eyes is soooooo 2060. get with the times, man!

[Yerameyahu]

How does that stop astral snooping? They'd have to be *living* fish packed all around the hiding place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Makki]

How does that stop astral snooping? They'd have to be *living* fish packed all around the hiding place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

he needs to catch live lobster!

[Bearclaw]

If the fish in the hold are alive, it stops astral snooping. Having enough water in there is a pretty common thing, I think.

[Manunancy]

If the fish in the hold are alive, it stops astral snooping. Having enough water in there is a pretty common thing, I think.

As far as I know it's not common, unles you're fishing things like lobsters and the like. The holds are only refirgerated very close to 0°c to make sure the fish keeps (most fishing boat operate close to the port, with a fishing trip under 12 hours).

A water-filled hold is usually a bad idea in a boat as seveal tons of water sloshing around can easily capsize a small boat.

[Mantis]

Even modern fish finders use sonar. Is there some reason beyond the slight capacity difference that you don't want to use sonar for your boat? It's cheaper than the UWB radar as well. As has been said, fishing boats don't roam about full of water and live fish. The big commercial ones tend to flash freeze the catch and smaller ones just kill them and keep them cool until they reach port. Keeping fish live on a boat just isn't practical.

[Bearclaw]

Yea, the idea is a flying spotter drone with OWB Radar and some basic image recognition to find fish. The fact that it can find anything else is just a bonus. I know how sonar works, so please, everyone, stop explaining it to me. It doesn't work on a vehicle that's not touching the water. The surface acts as a sonar barrier.

Also, I've only been on board one commercial rod and reel type boat, and the hold did have water, and the fish were alive until they got taken off. I'll cue up a couple of episodes of Swords and see how they do it.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Yea, the idea is a flying spotter drone with OWB Radar and some basic image recognition to find fish. The fact that it can find anything else is just a bonus. I know how sonar works, so please, everyone, stop explaining it to me. It doesn't work on a vehicle that's not touching the water. The surface acts as a sonar barrier.

That idea is utter bollocks. If you want to sense something under the sea, you need to use Sonar. UWB simply will not cut it, no matter how you try to jimmy physics.

But by all means, go ahead and try it. I wanna see the look on the Star's face when they detain you and your airborne radar drone and you try to tell them it's for fishing.

[Manunancy]

Yea, the idea is a flying spotter drone with OWB Radar and some basic image recognition to find fish. The fact that it can find anything else is just a bonus. I know how sonar works, so please, everyone, stop explaining it to me. It doesn't work on a vehicle that's not touching the water. The surface acts as a sonar barrier.

Also, I've only been on board one commercial rod and reel type boat, and the hold did have water, and the fish were alive until they got taken off. I'll cue up a couple of episodes of Swords and see how they do it.

I didn't say you can't have a water tank, but a mere refrigerated hold is easier to deal with and can probably store more fish for a given weight of filled hold - as far as I know the refirgerated hold is a more common design. I'd think the water tank system is more used for expsensive fishes you want to keep as fresh an intact as possible.

But an UWB radar won't go deep enough to spot most fishes - only those dwelling very close to the surface. What you might use if you're still going for a flyng 'spotter' could be a dipping sonar - a sonar haging at the end of a line that the drone can dip into the water. Anoter option coud be to use an hydrofoil based floating drone - go fast in hydrofoil mode and slow down once in position to get the sonar underwater.

[PresentPresence]

You could also put a flotation mod on a C-D Dalmatian, but it won't leave you room for anything else. Than you can stick on your sonar, an underwater camera with a wildlife spotter sensor soft, and still have 4 sensor capacity left. So, your VTOL drone hovers over the water, activates it memory metals and forms a pontoon, plops down in the water and "sonars" your fish, or any incoming police vessels. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Be creative - SeaDoo Bolts with LTA supplemented by Ford LEBD-1s with torpedo launchers, etc.

[Bearclaw]

The boat has sonar. The drone is a Kull, which is fixed wing and doesn't hover, so dipped sonar won't work either. I can always add a couple of other drones with sonar to go out and search for fish.
Really the Kull should work fine, as it can spot the schools of feeders that the Tuna chase. Which will lead us to the Tuna.

[Jaid]

quick question: are you looking for an excuse to have the kull in case the cops pull you over (figuratively speaking), or are you looking specifically to have your kull able to detect fish (and other underwater stuff)?

because if it's the former, well... it's not restricted in any way, and i think when you're at sea, using a resupply drone for resupply doesn't seem terribly ludicrous to me. you could also justify it by claiming you're using it to transport catches back to land to make sure your fish are as fresh as possible. or, better yet, both.

alternately, you could just give it sonar (in addition to a few other sensors), and adapt it to be able to land on water. frankly, you probably want to be able to land it on water anyways, no? so just land it, use the sonar to "check for fish" or whatever, and then take off from the water, move to a new location, check again, etc. there's your fish finder.

(on a side note, if you'd mentioned that the drone in question was a kull and specifically why you'd needed it, you could probably have gotten this kind of answer much earlier)

[Bearclaw]

My question was, "does water have a barrier rating". I wasn't really looking for suggestions. I was looking for a yes or no. And if yes, what it is.
If not, maybe some idea of how much water is equal to a say a blast bunker (barrier rating 17, which a rating 4 uwb Radar will penetrate).