Borderlands 2, Why you (no)mad, bro? Options

[Adarael]

No, that's not all they're doing. They're also trivialising all your NOT CHEATING effort and work to build your character, collect decent (and legit) weapons, etc.

By the same token, if someone ever turns on God Mode to get a perfect game of Doom, they are trivializing your own Doom scores? Or more pertinently to this board: if I cheat and make a Shadowrun character with 5000 karma and 20 million nuyen that I didn't earn, am I trivializing all of the effort you've made in your game to get 50 karma and 100,000 nuyen? Only if I play at your table. If I tried that at your table, you'd kick me out and not play with me again, because I've broken the social pact of the game. But the problem would be solved - you wouldn't agonize over the fact that there are other power gamers out there, playing Shadowrun with ill-gotten gains. I hope.

Which brings me to point number 2...

I didn't want to play with them in the first place.
Rampant cheating in BL1, is why I stopped playing with random PUGs ever, EVER again. I don't want to waste my time joining games (or having others join MY game), discovering cheater(s) in it, and leaving said game ... over, and over, and over. I'd rather spend that time playing.

Then really, don't play with PUGs. That's the answer, right there. I play with PUGs largely because I sometimes need to research matchmaking systems or how games work with random players, but I wouldn't choose to play with randoms for fun.
If you play with someone once who is kinda cool, and you get a sense they don't suck? Friend them and continue to play with them. Or play with people you talk to on Dumpshock, or other forums.

Oh, also? DUELS. Direct PvP.

...That you only have to engage in if you feel like it, and which provides no reward other than Badass ranks for *engaging* in it. That's not competetive, that's a choice. The game is not predicated on duelling.

Really, here's the thing: it is extremely difficult to harden a game against cheating. Next to impossible. To harden Borderlands 2 in the way people are clamoring for would have taken them - I estimate - at least 6-8 months just to get the game ready for launch, and would have required constant patching after that to stay current. It's not economically feasible unless the game is predicated on competetive play balance or ranked play of some kind, which BL2 is not. It is cheaper, easier, and generally more rewarding to have your answer not lie in code, but the statement "Don't play with assholes you don't like". Why more rewarding? Because all of those man-hours that once may have been spent on security features can now be spent on expansions and DLC for the game.

*shrug* I have exactly three people in my Steam /friends list ... two of whom I've met face to face (hell, one of them I live with). I'm not a social butterfly.

And yet there is no one on Dumpshock you'd sling guns with? For shame! There are dozens of us here who will shoot people in the face with others, without cheating.

[Stahlseele]

Well, probably without cheating friends and buddies at least . .
After all:"if you are in a fair fight, you have done something wrong"

[_Pax._]

Of the three? One hates shooters, one doesn't have a computer able to run BL2, and one lives in Greece (so his schedule's a wee bit "off" compared to mine).

*shrug*

[ShadowDragon8685]

No, that's not all they're doing. They're also trivializing all your NOT CHEATING effort and work to build your character, collect decent (and legit) weapons, etc.

How? Because their gun is a little more powerful than yours? Because they can carry all the ammos because they gave themselves all the Eridium they'd ever need and bought all the Storage Deck Upgrades the moment the Black Market opened? Because they gave themselves a ridiculous shitton of Badass points and have a lot of small bonuses compared to you?

I was in an open game this morning, all Mecromancers. Of them, the first person who joined my game (in Liar's Berg) was fascinated when I explained how I intended to "cheat my ass off with this character," but ultimately decided not to cheat for himself - which was cool.

The second, third, and fourth, were happy to reap the rewards. We spent like an hour in Moxxi's, with me supplying the cash and all of us just gambling the night away, joking about drops (and how I was the unluckiest bastard there, since I never got anything better than a green when all of them had had two greens and a purple from the slot machines,) then someone else joined who had figured out the secret to infinite gold keys, and we all piled into the transit station and MADE IT RAIN.

Does that "trivialize" any legit drops you get, or legit work you put in? No, because you put in legit shit, and we're clowning around for fun, profit, and the amusement of being loaded down with more purple gear than God and still killing badass psychos with a claw-hammer charge of four teenaged girls and their deathbots.

We tore that bastard apart. Granted, I was killed in the process and one of the others was dying when he went down, but it was fucking hilarious.


This isn't Counter-Strike. Cheaters aren't out to ballistically skullfuck you with impossible prescience and aim. Chances are we're just clowning around because it's how we have fun, which is kind of the point of the game. If you get some cheater who's being a grumpy old sourpuss and waving his cheating e-peenor in your face and saying he's better than you because he has all the goods, block him and ignore him; not because he's a cheater, but because he's a flame-spewing volcanic asshole.

But don't shit down on people just because they like to have fun differently. They're not trivializing your work, not at all, and they're not bad people. Hell, if you showed up with a 10-something character in my game, I'd probably ask if you wanted to sift through the loot and take your pick.

I didn't want to play with them in the first place.

Rampant cheating in BL1, is why I stopped playing with random PUGs ever, EVER again. I don't want to waste my time joining games (or having others join MY game), discovering cheater(s) in it, and leaving said game ... over, and over, and over. I'd rather spend that time playing.

Yeah! They should stop having fun their way and be forced to play the game the way you decree it should be played! No, wait, that's not what I meant to say at all. Pretty much take what I just said there and turn it around to mean, like, the exact opposite.

Oh, also? DUELS. Direct PvP.

Big freaking deal. Don't accept duel invites and you're golden. It's not like someone can come onto your server with all the purple gear ever, run right up to you wherever you happen to be, murder you and spawncamp you 'till you're broke or something.

[_Pax._]

By the same token, if someone ever turns on God Mode to get a perfect game of Doom, they are trivializing your own Doom scores?

If they do it in Single-player? Or only in games where everyone consents to their using Godmode? Bully for them; have lots of fun, I say.

If they do it in a game where I am playing - and where I haven't consented to anyone using cheats? Then yes, it's a problem.

Or more pertinently to this board: if I cheat and make a Shadowrun character with 5000 karma and 20 million nuyen that I didn't earn, am I trivializing all of the effort you've made in your game to get 50 karma and 100,000 nuyen?

If both characters are in the same game? Yes. (NOTE: that includes the whole of Missions.)

Then really, don't play with PUGs. That's the answer, right there.

Great. So you're saying that public co-op - a major selling point of the entire franchise - is something I shouldn't be able to do, because I elect to play the game as intended ...?

No. Absolutely, totally fuckin' no. I reject that premise with every fiber of my being.

Really, here's the thing: it is extremely difficult to harden a game against cheating. Next to impossible.

It's not the game that is the problem.

It's lowlife scum who cheat in multiplayer and don't first find out "hey, everyone here is okay with my cheating, yeah?" ... those're the problems.

And yet there is no one on Dumpshock you'd sling guns with? For shame! There are dozens of us here who will shoot people in the face with others, without cheating.

What part of "I am not a social butterfly" did you not get? I have a diagnosed condition of social anxiety. Making friends, meeting new people - even over the internet - is especially difficult for me. (One of the reasons I resent being, in essence, locked out of PUGs in order to avoid cheaters; PUGs give me just enough arms-length anonymity to be comfortable meeting complete strangers without huge chasers of adrenaline-fuelled anxiety.)

To put it simply: making friends does not come easily to me. Any more than stairs come easily to someone in a wheelchair, which is to say, "nigh on impossible".

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[_Pax._]

How? Because their gun is a little more powerful than yours?

"A little" ...? Yeah,right.

And it's not just guns. Classmods, relics, shields, and grenades count, too.

Because they can carry all the ammos because they gave themselves all the Eridium they'd ever need and bought all the Storage Deck Upgrades the moment the Black Market opened? Because they gave themselves a ridiculous shitton of Badass points and have a lot of small bonuses compared to you?

Wasn't someone suggesting 100%'s across the board, a little upthread? And, since all the challenges can be repeated ... yeah, I can believe at least +50%. To everything.

Does that "trivialize" any legit drops you get, or legit work you put in?

Yes, if you take it into a game with me.

But don't shit down on people just because they like to have fun differently.

As long as their fun doesn't step onmine, I don't and won't. But when it does ...? I have every god-damned RIGHT to complain.

Cheating is fine, as long as everyone in the game has consented to it. I cheat with both hands, in single-player games. I would never cheat in WoW, nor would I cheat with a character in BL2 who I ever expected to go multiplayer with (and I would have to keep track of how many badass tokens it earned, and NEVER SPEND THEM). Cheating should never touch the gamespaces of those who don't want to cheat.

Yeah! They should stop having fun their way and be forced to play the game the way you decree it should be played! No, wait, that's not what I meant to say at all. Pretty much take what I just said there and turn it around to mean, like, the exact opposite.

If their cheating is going to affect my game? Damned friggin' straight, they should be forced to play "my way"!!

Big freaking deal. Don't accept duel invites and you're golden.

... and an entire part of the game is taken away from me, because some people don't know how to play games by the same rules they've chosen to play by.

It's not like someone can come onto your server with all the purple gear ever, run right up to you wherever you happen to be, murder you and spawncamp you 'till you're broke or something.

... onto my server? Public games are just that, public. And because of rampant cheaters, I am essentially locked out of that entire aspect of Borderlands.

[Adarael]

Great. So you're saying that public co-op - a major selling point of the entire franchise - is something I shouldn't be able to do, because I elect to play the game as intended ...?
No. Absolutely, totally fuckin' no. I reject that premise with every fiber of my being.

No, what I'm saying is that you are being impossible about this. In any multiplayer game, you have two choices:
1) Play in public, and deal with cheaters either by accepting it, or kick/banning them and not playing with them;
2) Don't play in public.

You are asking to play in public where you do not have to deal with cheaters, and yet at the same time say:

It's not the game that is the problem.
It's lowlife scum who cheat in multiplayer and don't first find out "hey, everyone here is okay with my cheating, yeah?" ... those're the problems.

These statements are mutually exclusive. You cannot solve human desire to cheat, so in order to solve the problem of cheating, the game must be treated as the problem. Treating the game as the problem, developers have only two solutions, again:
1) Rely on players kicking and banning on a personal level to solve the problem - cheap, easy, intelligent (in the sense that it is adaptive).
2) Harden the game so that cheating is not possible - expensive, difficult, "dumb" (in a linear and non-adaptive sense).

They encrypted their save files, which is about all you can do without it being crazy expensive to block cheating of the type that you are annoyed by. The only other solution is to get Diablo 3 on the problem: you have to be online, all the time, always, in order to play the game. And I think if you look at the Diablo 3 thread, you can see how THAT goes.

What part of "I am not a social butterfly" did you not get? I have a diagnosed condition of social anxiety... which is to say, "nigh on impossible".

I would suggest that there is a SIGNIFICANT spectrum of introversion between "not a social butterfly" and "diagnosed with severe social anxiety".
I'm sorry you have this problem, however. It must suck, hardcore! But Borderlands 2 can also be played solo. If you are unhappy playing the game solo, and you are unable to make social attachments, and you are unwilling to deal with the wilds of the internet and all of the cheating, swearing, jackassery that goes with it, you may just have stumbled into the perfect storm of a game that is almost what you want but hard to play in the way that you want.

The only method of truly preventing cheating in PUGs is by investing huge amounts of man-hours into security & security infrastructure, including invasive Diablo 3 type "always on" connections. Even VAC type solutions aren't good enough by themselves, because of semi RPG-ish nature of the game - witness how much cheating still occurs in TF2, despite VAC-Secure servers and years of development.

Kick/ban + friends only play is the only economical solution for Gearbox to pursue. And while that sucks for you, personally, it is the statistically superior method of error handling for their customer base at large.

[X-Kalibur]

I think there's an important aspect being lost here... you have to allow it to bother you. Just don't let it get under your skin and you're gold.

[StealthSigma]

They encrypted their save files, which is about all you can do without it being crazy expensive to block cheating of the type that you are annoyed by. The only other solution is to get Diablo 3 on the problem: you have to be online, all the time, always, in order to play the game. And I think if you look at the Diablo 3 thread, you can see how THAT goes.

It goes remarkably well actually. I notice that a lot of the pro-cheats are also people that complained more about D3.

[Adarael]

Sure, but you and I - I don't mind either - are in the silent faction. Lots of people everywhere are very vocal about their butthurt over the always-on portion of the game. Like I said in the D3 thread: Blizzard's already won, because the game has sold crazy well. But it doesn't mean that there aren't a LOT of angry players.

[Critias]

While the fact it's a co-op rather than competitive game does cut down on the impact of cheaters, for sure, I think it's silly to say that it completely removes that impact.

Just because you're cooperating with your fellow players in, say, Shadowrun or D&D, does that mean it's fun to sit down at a convention with someone -- and I've got to say a con game is about like playing on-line, in that maybe you've got a mix of friends and strangers in a one-shot -- that's a rampant cheater? If someone sat down to play a Missions game with you and their every die roll just happened to be twenty dice, all coming up 6s, and they had a 10 Edge? If they were a Technosamuraisummonermancerfaceadept that did everything from casting overcast spells to summon spirits (of Man, with no drain, of course), to shooting and stabbing, to tearing up the Matrix?

Yeah, maybe you get to reap the rewards when they rampage all over every single NPC and you get your share of the pay, but...would you feel like it was fun? You, with your character that was meticulously made according to the Missions FAQ and rules, with your stack of experience point/advancement sheets, tracking your legal progress from game to game, making it work within the letter of the rules...only to have one guy do everything better than you, and make you at best redundant and at worst absolutely worthless?

Just because it's co-op, doesn't mean playing with a cheater is fun.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Crit:

The difference is that there's a few magnitudes of order more investment in a tabletop RPG than in Borderlands.

If someone is dual-wielding uberguns and invincibly stomping all over everything to the point it's not fun for you, you have two easy options:

1 (If not host): Leave that game, find new game.
2 (If host): Ask the guy to come back with a less gamebreaking character, and if he won't, kick him from your computer.

[_Pax._]

Crit:

The difference is that there's a few magnitudes of order more investment in a tabletop RPG than in Borderlands.

I recently tried to run a game (didn't end well, and at least 60% my fault). I had six players.

I owned every SR4 PDF with crunch in it, plus Herolab and every Shadowrun supplement for it, and an extra single license.

Another player owned most or all of the books, but no software.

A second player owned the Core book, arsenal, and Augmentation.

The other four didn't own a single two-dolalr PDF between them. And three were only learning the rules and setting as we played, too. Not everyone invests a lot into an RPG.

1 (If not host): Leave that game, find new game, and write off however much time you just spent in that game before being sure someone was cheating..
2 (If host): Ask the guy to come back with a less gamebreaking character, and if he won't, kick him from your computer - both of which take time, time you could have spent shooting things in the face instead.

Fixed that for you.

Oh, also, in both cases add: "YAYY, confrontation! Stress is FUN!! *sigh*

Cheating is fine in single player. And it's fine in groups where everyone consents to it.

But not anywhere else.

[Critias]

Crit:

The difference is that there's a few magnitudes of order more investment in a tabletop RPG than in Borderlands.

If someone is dual-wielding uberguns and invincibly stomping all over everything to the point it's not fun for you, you have two easy options:

1 (If not host): Leave that game, find new game.
2 (If host): Ask the guy to come back with a less gamebreaking character, and if he won't, kick him from your computer.

No one's saying it's an impossible situation with no way out, and you'll find yourself forever locked in a video game you don't want to play, lashed to someone you don't want to play it with. We're just explaining that maybe it's not fun, and maybe it sucks that someone else cheats and ruins our fun. You're insisting that hacking is harmless and a good time and everyone else should just lighten up about it, and if that's your personal opinion (or the opinion of the people you play with), then fine. But don't say so specifically to belittle the opinion and try to handwave away the concerns of folks that don't want to play that way.

Because there's a third option that you forget to list, and that's "3: Wish for a world where other people hacking doesn't mean I have to find new games."

[Mäx]

Woot woot, first campaign DLC in 4 days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

[Critias]

Dang, they're not wasting any time, are they?

[ShadowDragon8685]

I recently tried to run a game (didn't end well, and at least 60% my fault). I had six players.

I owned every SR4 PDF with crunch in it, plus Herolab and every Shadowrun supplement for it, and an extra single license.

Another player owned most or all of the books, but no software.

A second player owned the Core book, arsenal, and Augmentation.

The other four didn't own a single two-dolalr PDF between them. And three were only learning the rules and setting as we played, too. Not everyone invests a lot into an RPG.

Investment in terms of time, hard thought and emotion, not money. Financially speaking, I've invested more in Borderlands 2 than I did in the Saga Edition of Star Wars, but Borderlands 2 can't hold a candle to how much time and energy and effort I've put into Star Wars gaming.

1 (If not host): Leave that game, find new game, and write off however much time you just spent in that game before being sure someone was cheating..
2 (If host): Ask the guy to come back with a less gamebreaking character, and if he won't, kick him from your computer - both of which take time, time you could have spent shooting things in the face instead.

Fixed that for you.

Oh, also, in both cases add: "YAYY, confrontation! Stress is FUN!! *sigh*

Cheating is fine in single player. And it's fine in groups where everyone consents to it.

But not anywhere else.

1: How hard is it to see that someone's carrying all purples/golds/pinks? They tend to be visually distinctive, and, if they're pink, they have very noticeable firing methods. The more insidious form of cheating would be if they gave themselves like, 5,000 badass points and have like, +50-100% to all their badass-affected stats, but otherwise use regular crap guns.

The first case, you'll notice right around the first time they unload in combat, assuming you didn't think it was odd that someone was carrying around a truckload of beautiful uberguns in town. Total amount of time "written off" - five to ten minutes, twenty at the outside.

In the second case, you may never notice - so what's the problem? What you don't know won't hurt you, so shut the fuck up and shoot something.

2: If you skip the "ask him to leave" and go straight to "kicking him," then it takes you approximately twelve seconds, IF you're completely unfamiliar with the interface. YAY, twelve seconds out of your shooting time. I have a rocket launcher that takes almost that much time to reload.


And in both cases: WHAT confrontation, jackass? You just leave his game, or remove him from your own. Either way, it's no skin off you.

[_Pax._]

1: How hard is it to see that someone's carrying all purples/golds/pinks? They tend to be visually distinctive, and, if they're pink, they have very noticeable firing methods. The more insidious form of cheating would be if they gave themselves like, 5,000 badass points and have like, +50-100% to all their badass-affected stats, but otherwise use regular crap guns.

The first case, you'll notice right around the first time they unload in combat, assuming you didn't think it was odd that someone was carrying around a truckload of beautiful uberguns in town. Total amount of time "written off" - five to ten minutes, twenty at the outside.

I value my twenty minutes more than you do, that much is clear.

In the second case, you may never notice - so what's the problem? What you don't know won't hurt you, so shut the fuck up and shoot something.

Except I will know it - just not as quickly, and, just not as provably (which would make an accusation paint ME as the dick, rather than them). If they've got 100% to everything, then with the same gear, they are literally twice as good as I am. For every enemy I kill, they'll get 2. For every 10 I kill, they'll take down 20.

2: If you skip the "ask him to leave" and go straight to "kicking him," then it [...]

Makes me an asshole. Full stop.

And in both cases: WHAT confrontation, jackass? You just leave his game, or remove him from your own. Either way, it's no skin off you.

That. That right there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

See, now you're saying I am a jackass just for wishing people wouldn't cheat. To which I respond with a hearty fuck you; I'm shy of confrontations voice-to-voice, but not on a forum. Jackass.

[CanRay]

Children, play nice before the Mods lock this down.

[Tiralee]

...Or move the cheaters vs non-exploiters thread elsewhere?

Yeah, the patch was a bit..interesting. I miss Michael (I haven't seen him, not once, since the patch) and apparently a lot of the exploits were removed in order to facilitate a more balanced games play. I seriously miss that guy.

And yes, the Mechanomancer is a fun character but the robot is a rape-machine. God, that thing took down a level 16 GOD-lith (I was level 12 and not really boosting the robot skillz) while I hid behind a wall and tossed grenades and harsh language at it.

At level 50....yeah. Maya is so damn valuable in a party (The insta-res got another 100 badass rank in like 10 minutes of playing co-op) but at the moment, I'm like 5 skill-points from being an absolute hurt machine that can heal. The 150+/sec party healing is a nice bonus as well, but the slagball of stupendious hurt in addition with cohesion makes for some hilarious combat situations. I just wish the people I played with would take the hint and toss a turret or grenades into the clusterfuck suspended in the sky there...

The gunzerker can be hilarious in the wrong ways ("I charge and shoot everyone! Rez me, plz!") while z3ro players at least seem to think before charging in and dying. TheAxton guys seem to be smarter as well in the face of overwhelming odds - GF goes in first:)

Playing with a level 50 Mechanomancer was eddifying - it's not the character, it's the player that makes the game enjoyable. After the 6th group wipe because they insisted on shooting the big-ass electroball while we were in the middle of a group we asked them if they'd any other friends playing and then kicked them.

Anyhow, I'd really like to see the new DLC realsoonnow...trying to fight Tenticulasticular solo didn't exactly pan out how I wanted. (If the Bee and the conference call drops though, yeah, hurt time until the next patch)

-Tir.

Find me under Darshivadancer on X-box live. Jack must die...again.



And someone finish Shadowrun Returns soon. Dammit.

[_Pax._]

And yes, the Mechanomancer is a fun character but the robot is a rape-machine. God, that thing took down a level 16 GOD-lith (I was level 12 and not really boosting the robot skillz) while I hid behind a wall and tossed grenades and harsh language at it.

Yeah, I forsee a big ol' Nerf-stick treatment on that robot in the very, very near future. My own Mechanomancer is still under level 10, but ... damn, that robot is like having THREE other higher-level players show up to rape the NPC mobs, while I calmly skip along, humming to myself, looking for boxes of shinies to open up. Seriously. O_O

The gunzerker can be hilarious in the wrong ways ("I charge and shoot everyone! Rez me, plz!") while z3ro players at least seem to think before charging in and dying. TheAxton guys seem to be smarter as well in the face of overwhelming odds - GF goes in first:)

I think it's because the different class abilities lend themselves to different playstyles to begin with.

Gunzerking will appeal to people that already WANT to run out into the middle of a big group of enemies, and proceed to lay down the smack in unprecedented quantities.

Z3r0's stealth is well-suited for loners, who don't really coordinate well with the rest of a team.

Whereas Axton's turret promotes a more "I need to put the turret THERE, then go over HERE, so I can get these bastards in a crossfire" plan-then-act playstyle. Even if the plan is a simple as "I should put my turret there, befor runnign around shooting stuff".

Maya ... haven't tried her abilities yet, but I'd say she's a bit more crowd-control/support than the other classes, which also lends itself to the playstyle of thinkers/planners more than get-out-there-and-DO-STUFF players. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

... and Gaige, well ...yeah. Just ... yeah. O_O

Playing with a level 50 Mechanomancer was eddifying - it's not the character, it's the player that makes the game enjoyable. After the 6th group wipe because they insisted on shooting the big-ass electroball while we were in the middle of a group we asked them if they'd any other friends playing and then kicked them.

"Friendly fire ... isn't!"

[StealthSigma]

Yeah, the patch was a bit..interesting. I miss Michael (I haven't seen him, not once, since the patch) and apparently a lot of the exploits were removed in order to facilitate a more balanced games play. I seriously miss that guy.

He was broken on Sanctuary 1 for the console versions. His spawn rate was set to 100% for Sanctuary 1 but would return back to 10% on Sanctuary 2. The PC was never broken.

--

Z3r0's stealth is well-suited for loners, who don't really coordinate well with the rest of a team.

Zer0 is well.... odd. Mostly due to Deception but also due to some of his class mods and skill trees. You either give him a sniper rifle or you give him a pistol and go WTFBBQSAUCE on bandits through Deception and melee. The reason you don't see many charge in and die Zer0s is because most play sniping.

Skills that Improve Melee Damage [I ignore +Critical Hit Damage]. Skills with a * in front of them are increased by either of the two legendary class mods.
Zero:
*C0unter Strike (Tier 1 Cunning, 5 levels) - After getting hit, your next melee attack has a chance to deal +50% damage per level.
Ambush (Tier 2 Cunning, 5 Levels) - +4% damage per level when attacking enemies from behind or when attacking an enemy who is targeting someone other than you.
Rising Sh0t (Tier 3 Cunning, 5 Levels) - Each successful ranged or melee attack gives you +2% Gun Damage and +1.8% Melee Damage per level for a short time.
Unf0rseen (Tier 3 Cunning, 5 Levels) - Your decoy explodes when you become visible causing shock damage to nearby levels. (Included since a melee Zer0 is almost always going to be exiting Deception around enemies than a sniping Zer0)
Deathmark (Tier 3 Cunning, 1 Level) - Dealing melee damage marks a target for 8 seconds. Marked targets take 20% additional damage from all sources.
*Killing Bl0w (Tier 1 Bloodshed, 5 Levels) - +100% Melee Damage per level against enemies with low health (% unknown).
*Ir0n Hand (Tier 1 Bloodshed, 5 Levels) - +3% Melee Damage and Maximum Health per level.
Be Like Water (Tier 2 Bloodshed, 5 Levels) - Shooting an enemy gives +6% damage per level to your next melee attack. Melee Attacks give +4% damage per level to your next gun attack.
F0ll0wthr0ugh (Tier 3 Bloodshed, 5 Levels) - Killing an enemy gives +8% Movement Speed, +6% Gun Damage, and +8% Melee Damage per level for a few seconds.
Backstab (Tier 3 Bloodshed, 5 Levels) - Your melee attacks deal +8% damage per level when hitting an enemy in the back.
Execute (Tier 3 Bloodshed, 1 Level) - While Decepti0n is active and a target is under your crosshairs, melee to dash forward a short distance and perform a special melee attack, dealing massive damage. 3 meter range.
Resurgence (Tier 4 Bloodshed, 5 Levels) - Killing an enemy with a melee attack restores up to 4% of your health per level depending on how low your health is.
Like the Wind (Tier 5 Bloodshed, 5 Levels) - +3% Gun and Melee Damage per level when moving.
Many Must Fall (Tier 6 Bloodshed, 1 Level) - Killing an enemy with a Melee Attack during Decepti0n deploys an additional holographic decoy and extends the duration of Decepti0n instead of ending it.

Salvador:
Divergent Likeness (Tier 3 Gun Lust, 5 Levels) - +6% Damage when Gunzerking with two of the same type of guns. [Assuming you can melee while gunzerking]
Keep It Piping Hot (Tier 5 Gun Lust, 5 Levels) - While Gunzerking is in the process of cooling down you gain +5% Gun Damage, +6% Melee Damage, and +5% Grenade Damage per level.
All in the Reflexes (Tier 2 Rampage, 5 Levels) - +6% Reload Speed and +4% Melee Damage per level.
Fistful of Hurt (Tier 3 Brawn, 1 Level) - Throw a heavy punch dealing massive damage and knockback. Has a cooldown of 15 seconds.

Axton:
Crisis Management (Tier 5 Guerilla, 5 Levels) - +7% Gun Damage and +6% Melee Damage per level when shields are depleted.
*Impact (Tier 1 Gunpowder, 5 Levels) - +4% Gun Damage and +3% Melee Damage per level.
Battlefront (Tier 3 Gunpowder, 5 Levels) - +6% Gun, Melee, and Grenade damage per level when turret is deployed.

Maya: Cataclysm
*Mind's Eye (Tier 1 Harmony, 5 Levels) - +5% Critical Hit Damage and +6% Melee Damage per level.
Backdraft (Tier 3 Cataclysm, 5 Levels) - Your melee attacks deal additiona Fire Damage. Also, when your shields become depleted you create a fiery explosion, damaging nearby enemies. Your shields must recharge between explosions.
Blight Phoenix (Tier 5 Cataclysm, 5 Levels) - Killing an enemy causes you to deal constant Fire and Corrosive Damage to nearby enemies for a short time. The damage is based on your level and the level of Blight Phoenix.

Gaige: I don't know Gaige's bonuses specifically, but it looks like she has 3 melee oriented skill options.

So yeah... not knowing how these stack, I'm going to post both the additive and multiplicative stacking methods.

Axton gets +87% or +114%.
Maya gets +54%.
Salvador gets 80% or +102%.
Zer0, well Zer0 has a lot more contigent bonuses but none of them are mutually exclusive and some stack... +1551% or +32125%. For the sake of disclosure, I'm adding in the +4 ranks you can get from a specific class mod. A lot of this damage bonus is caused by two abilities. Counter Strike (+450%) and Killing Bl0w (+900%) which require that you have recently been hit and that you're attacking a low health enemy (<33%). I also haven't checked if every ability can be gained.

Now if you add a bladed Weapon, +50% damage and have a 5.2% BADASS bonus to melee damage....
Axton gets +142 or +338%
Maya gets +109% or +243%
Salvador gets +135% or +320%
Zer0 gets +1606% or +50694%

More hilarity with Zero's melee, I've read that 500k is a low ball number for Zer0's melee with 7500k damage being attainable. You can also melee Bunker with Zer0, something that can't be done with other characters.

[Mäx]

Yeah, I forsee a big ol' Nerf-stick treatment on that robot in the very, very near future. My own Mechanomancer is still under level 10, but ... damn, that robot is like having THREE other higher-level players show up to rape the NPC mobs, while I calmly skip along, humming to myself, looking for boxes of shinies to open up. Seriously. O_O

I haven't noticed DT being that good at killing the enemies, but that might be because i have been tricking the game to think there are 4 people in my solo game.

[_Pax._]

I haven't noticed DT being that good at killing the enemies, but that might be because i have been tricking the game to think there are 4 people in my solo game.

Yeah, and that makes all enemies much, much tougher.

But, just single-player, by yourself? DT steals the show. In a big way.

[StealthSigma]

Yeah, and that makes all enemies much, much tougher.

But, just single-player, by yourself? DT steals the show. In a big way.

Honestly, I can kill so much stuff with a sniping Zer0 so fast. My problem is when I try or bother with multiplayer games the lag makes it brutal to score the headshots and criticals that are necessary to make him brutal at sniping. That's part of the reason I've been considering migrating and respeccing to the melee build for him. Now that I'm reading about it, it looks like that's really the only way to play Zer0 in MP or even in SP PT2.