 Looking for books in electronic format |
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 Apr 20 2004, 07:31 PM
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#51
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775  |
If a court ruled that, I think I'd like to know where so I can bring suit against everyone who's ever manufactured a DVD with encryption for violation of my consumer rights.
And, yes, out of print books should absolutely be digitally available. |
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Apr 20 2004, 07:32 PM
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#52
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 13-January 04 Member No.: 5,975 |
OK, well reference my last post... I have a sibling that is an attorney, and this statement will make my last alittle less valid, but hang on.... If you own a license to a song, which the court has ruled in a similar case for video, then you can own it in any formate. So you could very easily argue that you are just downloading a song that you own already, which is legal! No of course this would have to be hashed out in court, $$$$$$$$$$$, but from what my lawyer has told me is that if you owned every metallica album from the beginning of time, and they came after you, then you should fight it and take them to court. You have already given you money for those songs....Now here is the twist If you CLAIM that your CD/Tape case was stolen by some fiend, then the burden of proof fall on THEM NOT YOU! So they have to prove that you NEVER owned those songs ever!!! Thats impossible to do.. Had a couple of legal minds sit and wonder on this one, what do yall think! |
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Apr 20 2004, 07:35 PM
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#53
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 13-January 04 Member No.: 5,975 |
A court just ruled, in Phili i belive, that they have to have a sepina to get your information from an ISP. AND they cant sue a bunch of John Doe IP address anymore either. This has made it much harder to get people and more expensive. This sound nice at first, but what it equates to it that a settlement with them would be more expensive. |
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Apr 20 2004, 07:42 PM
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#54
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Like I said before, under Fair Use, it's pretty much only illegal to distribute copyrighted material. You can make all the copies you like.
Likewise, downloading a file is in no way illegal. You have no way of knowing what a file is when you acquire it regardless of how it's labeled. That's why suing people for downloading is practically unheard of (no one has given a single link to such a case in this thread as far as I can remember). It's not only because going after the sharers is the easier part, it's because that's the only illegal part. Now if you acquire a file for which you become aware of as being an illegal copy of something, you're expected to delete it and be done with it. If you're stupid enough to put it keep it and share it with other people -- even if you're unaware of what it is because you haven't looked at it -- you've just entered the illegal scene. Ignorance is no excuse in that case. You have no right to whine if someone hauls your ass to court. |
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Apr 20 2004, 09:36 PM
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#55
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Only if you like shrinkwrapped books in stores (and thus being unable to flip through it beforehand to see what it's like). ~J |
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Apr 20 2004, 09:41 PM
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#56
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Ever picked up a programming book? Small, sealed, plastic cd sleeve glued to the back inside cover is all you need.
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Apr 20 2004, 09:42 PM
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#57
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Just make sure there are no places where a person could subtly tear the sleeve open and it will work.
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Apr 20 2004, 09:46 PM
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#58
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I bought one of those sometime around '94 that wasn't shrinkwrapped. All of my programming books with CDs included (and all other books with CDs that I've purchased that I can remember) have been completely shrinkwrapped. It'd be nice if FanPro went the other way, but that's far from guaranteed.
~J |
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Apr 20 2004, 09:56 PM
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#59
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
What makes you guys think they'd even seriously considering doing it?
Extra production costs, minimal gain, potential loss of revenue on new products. It's lose-lose all around. Now putting out-of-print books up for sale on the net, that's something that obviously has potential. But expecting them to give you an electronic copy of a book you just bought for free, especially when they have only recently begun being nice enough to give us an index in the back of the books again, is pretty much a pipedream. |
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Apr 20 2004, 09:57 PM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 24-January 04 Member No.: 6,013 |
Speaking of the RIAA, I seem to remember reading an article about how they were conducting Commando style raids on people selling burned CDs on the streets of LA, and how the LAPD were furious about that little decision of theirs.
Seems like they're determined to become the first REAL megacorp come hell or high water. :S |
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Apr 20 2004, 10:19 PM
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#61
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Absolutely nothing. I was just pointing out reasons why we might not want them to even if they would consider it. ~J |
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Apr 20 2004, 10:24 PM
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#62
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Dax: good lord, you're right. Time to form a paramilitary resistance movement.
Lime: true, for a small outfit like them, the benefits aren't really there (something like d20 could afford it, and doing so would really solidify its already disturbingly strong death grip on its market share). Perhaps if SR ever begins to get bigger. Who knows. At least there's hope in the immediate future for selling out of print stuff online, assuming someone at Fanpro can realize the potential. Kage: people steal them out of programming books, too. Stealing's always going to be an issue if you do retail, but you rely on culture to get by. I could steal it just as easily if it were shrink wrapped, after all. It's my personal unwillingness to do so that stops me from actually doing it. |
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Apr 20 2004, 11:06 PM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
It definatly wouldn't cost them much to start selling them online. Just have them download the pdf's already floating around the net and start selling those. They'd only need to scan in 7 more and they'd have every book they ever wrote. (As in, not having to spend money to make new versions of out-of-date products to sell us.)
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Apr 20 2004, 11:15 PM
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#64
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
I'm sure by "d20" you meant to say "Wizards of the Coast". d20 is not a company; it's a game system released under a public license.
Except that would be a) unethical and b) dude, the quality of so many of those scans is absolutely horrible. |
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Apr 20 2004, 11:21 PM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
Oh, a question I just thought of:
Somebody stole my Dragons book about two months ago. I did buy it from a store originaly though. Does that mean I can download it legaly? And, if I can, can I print out a replacement copy for myself? |
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Apr 20 2004, 11:29 PM
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#66
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not in the US. In the US it's only a backup copy if it came from your original copy.
Disclaimer: this was true in '99, IIRC. It may have changed. ~J |
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Apr 20 2004, 11:34 PM
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#67
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
If you live in Knoxville, then I saw it at the used bookstore ;) On the note of the rest of it, WotC has taken to releasing outdated products through online retailers. As far as I can tell, the retailers probably do all of the work insofar as putting it into PDF. The products go for about $5 each. Here's a site doing it for Darksun, at least. |
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Apr 20 2004, 11:35 PM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
Well damn. That sucks.
*Goes to shell out another $25 for the same book. |
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Apr 20 2004, 11:51 PM
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#69
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 3-February 04 Member No.: 6,054 |
Where do I sign up? |
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Apr 20 2004, 11:56 PM
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#70
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 8-April 04 From: Utah Member No.: 6,225 |
Ultimately, its the companies that put out copyrighted material that makes the laws. Just take a look at this link: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/02/23/dvd.suit.ap The most telling portion would be:
I think it would be great to have an electronic copy of the books I own. Unfortunately, thats not the direction that the world is going. Even the places that have put out electronic formats of various books only do it if they're hoping that the electronic release will be a teaser to generate more revenue or (in Wizards case) that the electronic books are old, obsolete, and it doesnt hurt them to put them out there and hope some people will buy them. |
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Apr 21 2004, 12:25 AM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Corps just keep getting greedier. If I were to go through all of my old comp games on disk, I'd be hard-pressed to find one that didn't SUGGEST making a copy. STRONGLY suggest.
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Apr 21 2004, 01:40 AM
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#72
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
If you think they are greedy now, see them in 2060!
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Apr 21 2004, 02:37 AM
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#73
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 15-April 04 Member No.: 6,248 |
a suggestion for fanpro assuming (dangerous practice, i know) reads through these forums every now and again. the people who made darwins world offer pdf versions of all the books they have made. the pdf versions usually run about 10-15 bucks less than the hard copy. and then they offer the hard copy for the difference between the 2. i bought the pdf for 25 bucks. then i bought the hard copy for 10 dollars more (usually runs 35 bucks). of course there are people who will "share" their e-versions with others, but there are people who do that shit anyways. if fanpro were to try this, they would see that there are more pros than cons. you can release a book before you get it back from the printer, and you make the players happy by allowing them the advantage of e-copies (it would kick ass if i could make up a rigger, or design a new gun during one of my boring psych lectures :) . having a nice hard copy to flip through is also nice. as far as printing out copies, by the time you factor in ink, and paper costs, it costs close to 10 bucks. they should try it at least once.
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Apr 21 2004, 02:44 AM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 24-January 04 Member No.: 6,013 |
The revolution is now. 8) |
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Apr 21 2004, 02:45 AM
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#75
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Not to mention you could so errata changes must faster.
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 27th December 2025 - 04:20 AM |
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