Mechwarrior: Online, Calling all Mechwarriors! (I know theres at least a few of us here Options

[toturi]

So in this game, missles cannot be manually shot down? Assuming your connection doesn't lag and you really are that damn good?

[_Pax._]

Nope, no manual shooting of LRMs.

Consider, they're teeny TINY things compared to the 'mechs. Each one only weighs, like, 5kg or 10kg, I think.

[toturi]

Nope, no manual shooting of LRMs.

Consider, they're teeny TINY things compared to the 'mechs. Each one only weighs, like, 5kg or 10kg, I think.

Consider since there quite a few of them and some of your weapons aren't just a tiny laser beam. For example IIRC an LBX round functions like shotgun rounds, so while most people can't shoot down individual LRM missles, you are essentially putting a wall of particles to intercept those missles. Or if you are shooting at the missle rack with, say a PPC, when the missles come out, could it not be physically possible that the missles run into the PPC blast? And since like you say those things are teeny tiny, it wouldn't take much to destroy them, would it?

If they are keeping to the pnp rules, then those missles are essentially invisible invulnerable objects that can only be shot down by your various antimissle systems. One of the many reasons why I wasn't all that into the Battletech pnp game.

[Stahlseele]

it does not work. full stop.
the only two things that work against missles are the AMS and the LAMS.
the one that is in right now sucks and the other that is not in yet will suck.

[Tanegar]

Why would you be able to manually shoot down missiles? Consider that IRL, the only systems capable of shooting down a missile in flight are fully automated point-defense systems like CIWS... which is exactly what AMS is.

[Stahlseele]

Because the missles are small, slow and fly in tight enough clusters that an arm thick laser beam could be expected to cut through several of them . .

[Tanegar]

Bought an HBK-4G Hunchback. Named it "Boom Boom." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[taeksosin]

I wants a 4SP. Oh, and did the LRM hotfix go in?

[Tanegar]

There was another patch earlier today. Not sure what it did.

[Fabe]

There was another patch earlier today. Not sure what it did.

Took care of the problem with missiles dropping straight down onto their targets making cover useless and scoring to many upper torso hits I think.

[bannockburn]

reduced lrm damage from 2.0 to 1.7, artemis spread increased by 5% and the arc bug was resolved (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

why do LRMs even GET 2.0/1.7 Damage?
It should be 1 per Missle.

[bannockburn]

No clue why they deemed it necessary, but I like the reduced damage. At the moment, LRMs still feel like a threat, but I don't think they would if they were scaled down to 1 again. Too many ways to dodge them, I guess, so they need to make the weapon viable. For example, in one of my scout mechs I rarely get hit at all, even if multiple Cats fire at me.
In TT, the constant movement isn't a factor, so maybe that's where they're coming from. Ask the developers, I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[almost normal]

I love you guys. I get all the fun of bitching without any of the personal aggro from having to deal with it myself.

Some clarifications.

PAX is right on the arty thing. Oddly enough, Arrow IV is a missile.

The other odd thing : Many direct fire weapons have no actual maximum range. They can deal damage out to the horizon of the planet. Tournament rules don't take that into account for the most part, since the modifier is fairly high, and rarely do you feel the need to take a pot shot at 20 maps out.

Still, as possibly the biggest fan of the board game here on dumpshock, it's got some fairly egregious mechanical errors. A complete lack of overwatch is terrible, and not being able to target an enemy while it's moving is another glaring mistake.

It seems the online game makes plenty of it's own bizzare and dubious decisions. Shutdowns being a big one. First of all, it's not a shutdown. It's putting the mech in a sleep-like state. The timing required to actually shut the reactor down takes far longer then most combats allow for. Shutting down should be reserved for the most dire of circumstances. Having multiple heat inducing hits to the engine rising heat past sink capacity would be a good one. Suddenly and miraculously breaking missile lock? Please.

Shutdown targets are a -4 to hit. In the battletech world, that makes a very low odds shot become a better then average shot at hitting.

Anyway, I'm annoyed these fuckers went from playing in the 3025 universe to all this extra clan/star-league bullshit. So fuck em all.

[Stahlseele]

Ah . . no?
ALL CBT WEAPONS HAVE A MAXIMUM RANGE.
One Hex outside of that Range(30m) and you don't take any damage at all.
While you take full damage if you are 30m closer.
At least if you don't use the damage drop-off over reach rule.
A shut down target does not become easier to hit in CBT either O.o
Only if it does not start up does it become an immobile target in the next round.
And then it's just that.


Arrow IV is basically a Tomahawk Missle.

[almost normal]

Ah . . no?
ALL CBT WEAPONS HAVE A MAXIMUM RANGE.

Yes. Which is around the horizon line. TacOps for source.

I *think* that wierd tac manual book introduced it, or at least the concept of extended range past long range. Not sure if MaxTech carried it on, but I'm positive TacOps dealt with basically infinite range for some weapons that would logically have them. (Lasers and PPCs. Possibly Gauss. Bit fuzzy on it.)

Further, there exists no option to shut down and start up in the same turn. Therefore any shutdown unit receives the -4 immobile penalty.

[Falconer]

Yes... the same ML you use on an aerospace fighter goes multiple MAPSHEETS... each mapsheet is defined as 18 hexes.

They basically pull some mumbo jumbo about ground clutter... and electronic warfare keeping ground ranges rather small to keep the game within a playable surface area.

For most ground units the horizon isn't all that far away. Though I don't know how tacops words it. There were some old extreme range bits where it was a -8 to hit IIRC in prior rules. Again optional advanced stuff that almost never got seen.

Under the prior incarnation of the rules they have redone the 'oppurtunity fire' rules. Basically you take your turn and you declare oppurtunity fire instead on your weapons phase. Then on the next round you can't move but can shoot interupting units movement if need be. I made a name for myself using this to blast ASF's using movement on mapsheets rules out of the air... since I'd pick them off when they got close or when their firing arc would suddenly change from side to back (+2 to hit side, vs 0 to send one up the tailpipe, or +1 head on). I don't know the new rules as well as I did the old ones though.

Those rules were also murder on light mechs... because the movement mod was based on how far it moved before you shot. Oh you moved your dinky sucker right in front of me with a massive to hit mod... cool off and declare op fire... next round... oh you moved 1 hex... *BLAM* smoking ruin left in front of assault mech.

Some things like LRM's again when used in space/atmospheric combat also have a range of about 20 mapsheets... so it comes down to the problem of guidance against ground clutter again.

That said... the real value in the ELRM. Was their IDF capability. With artillery anything over 18 hexes takes a full round of flight time. ELRM though could hit things instantly when fired from 37 hexes... so you'd pull up an ELRM carrier tank and park it way in the back and it would provide far more accurate and timely fire support than any artillery piece could. So there's bit of difference between LRMs and the 'true' artillery.

[Tanegar]

How do you set a group to ripple fire instead of simultaneous?

[taeksosin]

Highlight the group and press backspace.

And you tabletop guys, mind starting your own thread to quibble over rules in or something? Makes it hard to talk about MWO in here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Falconer]

You realize we ARE talking about the computer game and how it implements the game. Especially as how their changes adversely break game play... and how they make it better.

Example... I like how they did the beam lasers with the long hold on an area. I don't like the heat system at all... then again I haven't played in a week so what do I know.

[KarmaInferno]

Highlight the group and press backspace.

I have found that the built-in chain or ripple fire doesn't seem to work that well with fast firing weapons. Like the AC/2 firing rate is actually a little faster than the ripple fire allows.

I set two out of my three AC/2s on ripple fire, and the third on it's own weapon group, and the resulting total rate of fire if I shoot both groups at once is visibly faster than just putting all three in the same group. I imagine it would be even faster if I put each on in it's own group and stagger-fired them manually.



-k

[Tanegar]

I find that ripple fire also makes you less effective against fast targets. You often have small windows in which to fire, so you have to make them count.

[_Pax._]

I have found that the built-in chain or ripple fire doesn't seem to work that well with fast firing weapons. Like the AC/2 firing rate is actually a little faster than the ripple fire allows.

I had a five or six Medium Pule Laser setup, and found the same thing. I briefly considered setting up some ohte G keys on my G510 keyboard to handle a faster one-by-one rate of fire ... but, eh, that's more involved than I generally like to get. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It would be very, very nice if MWO would let you set up more-detailed weapon groups. Specify firing delays, tricks like "chain fire in pairs", and so on. I'm sure a lot of pilots would appreciate that sort of thing.

I find that ripple fire also makes you less effective against fast targets. You often have small windows in which to fire, so you have to make them count.

Depends on the weapon, and the pilot. With lasers, chain-fire can often mean that you end up with what amounts to "a permanent beam of hurt", and tracking that along across a skittering light was easier for me, than trying to pot-shot an entire array of beams at them. All-or-nothing shots, for me, came up "nothing" more often than they came up "all", or even just "some".

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, lasers as DOT Weapons are one of the few good ideas they used . . i wonder where they got that from . .

[taeksosin]

Apologies then Falc. I glanced at them briefly and started seeing negative numbers and didn't bother reading them in their entirety. Carry on.

DoT lasers are fun, but then you realize you can also just play with pulse lasers. Pulse lasers on my Jenner are FUN! Of course, if I ditched them I could probably fit those SRMs back on it...
As to heat, again from a light mech point of view, but it doesn't seem to be an issue for me. But, when you're just running 3xMPL and a TAG with DHS and an XL 300 engine (heat efficiency of 1.24 if I remember right) on any map except stupid volcano boom surprise, I don't have to worry about heat. So I can't really speak about heat issues.