Shadowrun Borderlands 2 Guns, GET NUTS! Options

[The Jopp]

An additional weapon mod my deranged mind cooked up:

Restricted Ammunition
+1 Modification Slot
The weapon can only use, or is designed to only use one type of ammunition, like the Slivergun.

The Weapons

The Shortstop Double Whammy
Barret 101
-Barrel Reduction
-Electronic Firing
-Underbarrel Weapon
--UB Barret 101
--Barrel Reduction
--Electronic Firing
--Additional Clip [to get the ammo at the same amount as the top weapon]

The Shortstop does not fire short bursts - It fires Both barrels at once as two separate shots due to the electronic firing being linked. The drawback is that the recoil is doubled but the target takes two separate hits.

Acid Rain
Ingram Smartgun X
-Additional Clip
-High Velocity
-Restricted Ammunition - Capsule Rounds
-Electronic Firing

The Acid Rain is designed to fire a withering hail of capsule rounds usually filled with highly corrosive acid [Acid Rating 6]. A critical glitch with said weapon destroys the gun (It melts and sprays corrosives all over the place) and the user takes a basic hit from the weapon.

The Assured Kill
Ballista
-Burst Fire Mod
-Additional Clip
-Restricted Ammunition [Direct Fire Missiles]

The Face Filler
M79B1 LAW
-Short Barrel
-Underbarrel Auto-Assault 16
--Bayonet

[Medicineman]

The Shortstop does not fire short bursts - It fires Both barrels at once as two separate shots due to the electronic firing being linked. The drawback is that the recoil is doubled but the target takes two separate hits.
The Problem is:
2 simultanous hits get treated (by RAW) as a short Burst so ist only DV +1 .on the Plus side You only get +1 Recoil ,not Double Recoil.
So with this Houserule You'd be changing the Balance of the Damage System.
because 2 Bullets with seperate Damagecode would be very similar to(as in One Step before) a Short Burst seen as 3 Rounds with a different Damagecode for each Bullet


Acid Rain
Next Problem:
by RAW Capsule Rounds ar very expensive because every single Round needs 1 Dose of the Chemical

HokaHey
Medicineman

[The Jopp]

because 2 Bullets with seperate Damagecode would be very similar to(as in One Step before) a Short Burst seen as 3 Rounds with a different Damagecode for each Bullet

Acid Rain
Next Problem:
by RAW Capsule Rounds ar very expensive because every single Round needs 1 Dose of the Chemical

HokaHey
Medicineman

Good point on both but with a difference.

1. The short burst is in reference to a singular weapon, this is in fact two weapons firing at once, not 1 weapon with 2 barrels. The short burst apply when 1 weapon fire two rounds like the Fubuki with it's X4 barrels mounted on 1 gun.

If you took a Sakura Fubuki with 1 underbarrel sakura fubuki it would fire twin short bursts and not one 4 round burst.

2. That is correct. I have not said that the ammunition would be cheaper, just that the weapon is limited to the ammunition.

[Notsoevildm]

Good point on both but with a difference.

1. The short burst is in reference to a singular weapon, this is in fact two weapons firing at once, not 1 weapon with 2 barrels. The short burst apply when 1 weapon fire two rounds like the Fubuki with it's X4 barrels mounted on 1 gun.

If you took a Sakura Fubuki with 1 underbarrel sakura fubuki it would fire twin short bursts and not one 4 round burst.

Smells like rules lawyering to me and not sure if it's even correct by RAW. How is firing one gun with multiple barrels any different from firing multiple guns strapped together.

I would certainly rule that if you fire x rounds at a single target as part of a single action, whether from one or more guns, that the best you would get would be (highest damage code + (x-1)). Only exception to this would be the existing rules for splitting dice pool when firing two or more weapons simultaneously.

Otherwise you need to change the system to roll soak for every round from a burst, which would be both time consuming and potentially very deadly for low bod / lightly armoured characters and easy mode for trolls in combat armor.

[Mäx]

Good point on both but with a difference.

1. The short burst is in reference to a singular weapon, this is in fact two weapons firing at once, not 1 weapon with 2 barrels. The short burst apply when 1 weapon fire two rounds like the Fubuki with it's X4 barrels mounted on 1 gun.

Then you need to split your dicepool for shooting two guns, but thats not allowed for snipers.
Damm this gave me an idea for a new quality:
Gunzerker 10BP(or maybe 15)
Character with this quality can shoot any types of guns simultaneously(see Attacker using a second firearm SR4A page.150)

Maybe needs a somekind of minimum strength values for different categories of guns.

[The Jopp]

Gunzerker 10BP(or maybe 15)

Don't trolls have this ability already? No -2D6 for holding 2 handed weapons in one hand?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Good point on both but with a difference.

1. The short burst is in reference to a singular weapon, this is in fact two weapons firing at once, not 1 weapon with 2 barrels. The short burst apply when 1 weapon fire two rounds like the Fubuki with it's X4 barrels mounted on 1 gun.

If you took a Sakura Fubuki with 1 underbarrel sakura fubuki it would fire twin short bursts and not one 4 round burst.

2. That is correct. I have not said that the ammunition would be cheaper, just that the weapon is limited to the ammunition.

Hate to bust your bubble, The Jopp.
There is precedence for firing multiple barrels simultaneously, regardless of whether they are from a single weapon or not. Here is the relevant quote, for a double barreled weapon.

The weapon’s rigid stock comes equipped with an integrated shock pad. Both barrels can be shot at once with a +1 DV and a –1 Recoil modifier.

As you can see, it treats the extra round, from the extra barrel, as a +1 DV, not a secondary bullet impact. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[The Jopp]

Hate to bust your bubble, The Jopp.
There is precedence for firing multiple barrels simultaneously, regardless of whether they are from a single weapon or not. Here is the relevant quote, for a double barreled weapon.

As you can see, it treats the extra round, from the extra barrel, as a +1 DV, not a secondary bullet impact. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I am overruled. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

So how would that work if I have two separate weapons with the following?
-Two DIFFERENT weapons [Rifle+UB Laser Gun]
-Rifle+UB Rifle but different ammunitions?

I mean, the darn things are possible.

[Mäx]

Don't trolls have this ability already? No -2D6 for holding 2 handed weapons in one hand?

No penalty, but they still can't fire anything other then pistols and SMG:s with the same action.

[The Jopp]

No penalty, but they still can't fire anything other then pistols and SMG:s with the same action.

You mean that it should be an ability to shoot two weapons at the same time with full dicepool?

Like firing twin SMG's at burst and call it a long burst and not splitting pool?

[Mäx]

You mean that it should be an ability to shoot two weapons at the same time with full dicepool?

Like firing twin SMG's at burst and call it a long burst and not splitting pool?

No, i mean an ability to shoot weapons of any catecory at the same time by plitting the dicepool using the rules that are referenced.
Normally this can only be done with pistols or SMG:s.

[The Jopp]

Normally this can only be done with pistols or SMG:s.

huh, I didnt even know there was such a rule.

But I can see a problem with someone splitting pools for his dual mounted miniguns.

Or the cyberlimbed gunaddict.

6 cyberarms
6 weapon mounts
6 SMG's with underbarrel SMG's
6 hand held SMG's with underbarrel SMG's

That's 24 bursts where the onboard agents fire all the guns as the user sends a command.

I guess we call everything a short 3+3 burst +22 round burst with no recoil.

[Mäx]

Or the cyberlimbed gunaddict.

6 cyberarms
6 weapon mounts
6 SMG's with underbarrel SMG's
6 hand held SMG's with underbarrel SMG's

That's 24 bursts where the onboard agents fire all the guns as the user sends a command.

I guess we call everything a short 3+3 burst +22 round burst with no recoil.

How does this have anything ro do with the quality i proposed?

[CanRay]

Great, now I want to make a firearms company named "Bandit".

[ZeroPoint]

No, i mean an ability to shoot weapons of any catecory at the same time by plitting the dicepool using the rules that are referenced.
Normally this can only be done with pistols or SMG:s.

While technically correct if using only the mainbook and following strictly to the letter of the rule, might want to check out....

Arsenal page 162, Using Two-handed firearms:

Large firearms (anything rifle-sized and larger) are typically
used with two hands. A character wielding a large firearm with only
one hand will suffer a –2 dice pool modifier to ranged attacks (–1
for trolls).

If you can wield it one one hand, you can dual wield it.

Of course, that -2 (-1 for troll) dice pool modifier would get added to both weapons after the split so have fun with that.

[CanRay]

Heavy Weapons Troll needs Svetlana's twin sister. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ZeroPoint]

Which makes me think you could change your quality to instead be:

Rambo (5BP)
You do not take the additional -2 penalty for wielding a 2-handed firearm in one hand.

Readies his dual belt-fed M-60s

[The Jopp]

Great, now I want to make a firearms company named "Bandit".

All weapons have an additional clip?

[Mäx]

If you can wield it one one hand, you can dual wield it.

Of course, that -2 (-1 for troll) dice pool modifier would get added to both weapons after the split so have fun with that.

Problem isn't dual wielding, i dont remember any rule in the corebook that stops you from dual wielding any and all weapons.
But the rule for using a second firearm(the one that allows you to shoot them simultaniously by plitting your pool) is explicitly for pistols and SMG:s only.

[The Jopp]

How does this have anything ro do with the quality i proposed?

Eer, nothing really, I think my mind got sidetracked - sorry about that.

More the part about handling multiple weapons fired at once combined with dual wielding and the complexity of LOTS of weapons.

1 gun with an underbarrel weapon firing as one counts as a short burst
Gun mounted on a cyberarm gun mount with an underbarrel weapon firing as one is also a short burst
Then we also hold a weapon in the hand with the same stats and fire both at once.

Should one simply count these X4 guns as 1 gun +3 shots as a single burst +1 bullet or 2 short bursts?
Then we compound that with X6 cyberlimbs with the same setup and a split pool by 6 with a specialization.
Say 3D6 for each arm firing single shots which is X4 shots per arm (Twin guns with an UB weapon each).

Should we count that as twin short bursts per weapon or simplify it by calling each shot as a 4 round burst.

We are essentially talking about the firepower of 24 SMG's firing single shots at once but either counting it as multiple short bursts or 4 round bursts from each weapon.

4 round bursts becomes 6 attacks to dodge or 12 short bursts to dodge.

I've been toying with the concept of a living gun platform but not sure how to handle the massed firepower without it becoming silly (as if the concept isn't extreme enough.

[The Jopp]

But the rule for using a second firearm(the one that allows you to shoot them simultaniously by plitting your pool) is explicitly for pistols and SMG:s only.

That's kinda dumb, but at the same time I have a difficulty seeing anyone, even a troll firing twin shotguns with more efficiency than firing one gun twice with more dice.

They should just say that at a certain weapon size you get additional negative dice due to weapon size.

Dual wielding rocket launchers will be a bit extreme.

[Medicineman]

They should just say that at a certain weapon size you get additional negative dice due to weapon size.
they Do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Heavy Weapons get doubled uncompensated recoil (for both Weapons if Shot Akimbo )

with an uncompensated Dance
Medicineman

[The Jopp]

They should just say that at a certain weapon size you get additional negative dice due to weapon size.
they Do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Heavy Weapons get doubled uncompensated recoil (for both Weapons if Shot Akimbo )

with an uncompensated Dance
Medicineman

I had forgotten that.

So - the conclusion:

Pistols & SMG: No penalty
Longarms (2 handed): -2D6 (-1 for trolls)
Heavy Weapons: -2D6 (-1 for trolls) + Double uncompensated Recoil.

So the dual wielding restrictions in regards to pistols and SMG's are totally retarded.

[StealthSigma]

Dual wielding rocket launchers will be a bit extreme.

And recommended.

[The Jopp]

And recommended.

Hexawielding missile launchers with six arms and underbarrel rocketlaunchers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)