Athletics in combat, Adding Power to an Attack Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Siege]

Jumping back kick, flying jump kick, etc. are all attacks that use jumping and leaping to add power to a melee attack.

Supposing a character wanted to add Great Leap or even just Athletics to attempt a similar stunt in melee combat, two questions:

1. Would you the GM allow it?
2. How would you rule it?

-Siege

[Lilt]

I'd probably let them make it look more impressive but no damage bonus (compared to a normal martial arts kick-attack).

I'd also be somewhat wary of the statement that the attacks "use jumping and leaping to add power to a melee attack." Punching uses various motions of the arm to add power to the attack, but that dosen't mean that someone who can bench more using his athletics can punch doing more damage.

[Crusher Bob]

Hmm, one way I can think of to do this (that is hopefully not too unbalanced) to make a martia that allows athletics to give bonus dice (complementary? athletcis/3?) to you attack that follows a move action (so this manuver would be two complex actions, a move and then an attack). Also, you might want to let anyone be able to do this, the main problem with doing it is that you are likely to fall down or otherwise be vulnerable. So maybe after the attack suffer a -1TN to be hit? Or maybe make an athletics test of some sort to avoid falling down? Thus, the superhumanly athletics physads gain from wire fu, but normal people with very high althetics could do it too.

[Lilt]

Extra dice could be even more broken than extra power.

I also don't see how being able to kick higher/faster would help you to orchistrate your attack in such a way that you are more likely to defeat your opponent.

Having said that, if you combine it with an edge (Kicking Master?) then it could be roughly equivalent to "ambidexterity light" when it comes to melee combat (+1/3rd of Athletics when using the kick attack maneuver). I think the edge should be cheaper than ambidex-6 as it does nothing for akimbo pistol-wielding and you need to use 2 different skills rather than one like you can with edged weapons, clubs, or whips. Say around 3-4 points?

[A Clockwork Lime]

Actually, I would take Lilt's suggestion and run full-force with it. Athletic Brawler (or whatever else you'd like to call it; I'm not very poetic at this hour) could be a 3- or 4-point edge that allows the character to use Athletics as an "off-handed weapon" for unarmed combat equal to one-half its score. It is not compatible with Ambidexterity.

Since Ambidexterity doesn't normally work with unarmed combat, that pretty much allows a character who prefers to fight unarmed to keep up with someone weilding two weapons. It's not exactly a cakewalk, though, because as Lilt pointed out such a character has to maintain at least two skills whereas someone with Ambidexterity can get away with just one skill.

But it's still a cool and fun way to design a character, and it shouldn't be unbalancing at all. At least no more so than Ambidexterity.

[Lilt]

I'd be wary of applying the bonus dice to attacks other than kick attacks, or if that is allowed then maybe restrict its use to normal attacks and a limited list of combat options. The usefulness of the feat really depends on what attacks it can be applied to. Perhaps make it a ranked power?

3 points allows you to use it with Kick attack and adds 1/2 athletics dice to a kip-up quickness test.
4 points also allows you to also use it for normal attack/defense as well as the ground fighting and evasion maneuvers.
5 points also allows bonus dice with the zoning, whirling, multi-strike, disorient, and herding maneuvers.

Any suggestions?

[snowRaven]

Charging Attack (CC pg.86) - who says it's two meters running or even in a straight line?

Tae Kwon Do (CC pg.90) says specifically that "Their flying kick techniques allow tae kwon do practitioners to use the Kick Attack maneuver with the Called Shot, Charging, Disarming or Knockdown Attack options.

Other than that I'd say it's all just flavor description, and doesn't give any specific bonuses. You can also rule that maneuvers like 'Full Offense', 'Zoning', 'Whirling', and 'Multi-strike' use acrobatic maneuvers and flying kicks, if it is approperiate for the martial art in question.

[Arethusa]

Honestly, I'm ok with allowing athletics as complementary to unarmed martial arts in order to balance against dual melee weapons.

[Moon-Hawk]

Then you get Physical adepts with improved ability unarmed and improved ability athletics for a ridiculous number of dice, but this is still no worse than the ambidexterity ones since at least this way they have to pump up two different skills.
I think it's a very cool idea.

[Arethusa]

Well, no one ever said physads weren't broken, but now, at least, they'll be evenly broken, and we mundanes'll benefit a little bit more than the adepts.

[Smiley]

[blakkie]

That would be a matter of STR for the power rating, no?

EDIT: Or more clearly stated: they can bench more because of STR and they'll hurt your more because of STR, but they aren't hurting you more because the can bench more.

[Smiley]

Just an example. Besides, Arnie can do all kindsa weird athletic stuff to beef up his attacks. Watch Commando, Eraser, or anything like that.

[BitBasher]

[Shanshu Freeman]

what about someone with athletics: specialization gymnastics? any bonus for dodging?

[Arethusa]

There's already athletics rolling for dodging. Rules are in the CC, though I don't know the page number off the top of my head.

[Shanshu Freeman]

[blakkie]

[BitBasher]

Actually in my games Martial Arts can be linked to quyickness, strength or body, att eh PC's choice, but once picked it cant be changed. This determines the descriptions I give of how a fight flows.

[Zazen]

My fights are pretty cinematic, so athletics helps when someone wants to roll under the table his opponent is standing on and stab his knife through the table and into a foot.

You've got to actually say stuff like that to get a bonus, though, so just calling them everpresent complementary dice gets a thumbs-down from me.

[Buddha72]

I just played in a game this weekend where the GM was open to more cinematic fight scenes. He basically let players roll Athletics or Acrobatics to accomplish slick movement. The whole "Run, leap over the guard, hit the ground, roll and out pops the blade" sequence. As a player I was excited to have flavor text given some impact and getting to use my skills in a novel way. He gave me the Superior Position bonus when I was successful and warned that if I failed I would be looking at some hefty penalties or even a free whack from the security guards. I don't think another -1 was too unbalancing and it encouraged more flavor text from me.

Just my 2 :nuyen: worth.

[Smiley]

With a previous GM, we were allowed to narrate our own melee combat scenes, armed or unarmed. The one with the most successes (the one doing the damage) got to decide exactly what was going down. We couldn't narrate ourselves bonuses or anything, it was just an amusing way to play it. In situations where we barely won, we landed a rabbit punch and when we blew our opponents out of the water, we got to think of something cooler and more theatrical.

[CardboardArmor]

All this talk and my inherant hatred of all things steroetypically Japanese makes me want to make Pai Mei for Shadowrun.

I wonder what martial arts I should give to him.

[BitBasher]

All of em. At 40.

[CardboardArmor]

He twirls his beard and laughs obnoxiously...And heads roll.