Shadowrunners: sanity not required? Options

[FuelDrop]

It's well known that most runners are a little bit crazy in one way or another. Mechanically, it's an advantage for the extra BP you can squeeze out of the negative qualities section, while RP wise most runners day to day activities require you to be not right in the head in some way or other.

Case study one: Cletus John Wayne the 33rd. This redneck cyborg is heavily augmented with components literally ripped from defeated foes, leaving him with an odd mish-mash of 'Ware. Of particular note is his datajack, to which is fused a personafix that was originally supposed to make him believe that he is the worlds strongest man. After attempting to browbeat his BTL dealer, what he actually received was a modified Christ2000 persona, meaning that if the faulty 'jack powers up during battle the redneck killing machine is liable to fall to his knees and start praying for the souls of his vanquished foes, ignoring the chaos around him until another part of the program kicks in and sets him trying to break up the fight peacefully. His hobbies include brewing moonshine, producing (and using) drugs and fabricating home-brew explosives, along with dating attractive cousins. The remainder of his free time is spent doing good works for the church of the christian kingdom.

The above character can obviously not fit into normal society, but is capable of being an effective if eccentric shadowrunner. This begs the question: Are shadowrunners as a group more accepting than the normal society of the sixth world, or are they merely desperate enough to work with individuals who are less than sane?

Perhaps more importantly, are such runners the exception or the rule?

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I would say both. Shadowrunners need people who can get things done; this means they'll overlook certain quirks if necessary. Then they acclimate to said quirks. Eventually, you end up with JackPoint.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

It depends, I suspect, on the impact of the individual's mental health status on their ability to function in the team. If they go all Fishmalk, that will likely impede their ability to work in a black trenchcoat/so-mirrorshades-their-eyes-are-mirrored group. If you're a pink-mohawk crew, that sort of behavior may be acceptable.

Playing something more realistically requires a deft hand and an understanding of the symptoms, not just in a clinical sense, but in terms of the experience of living with MI, on both the part of the player and the GM. Depending on what symptoms are present, and to what degree they are controlled (via medication, therapy, etc.) they may make some tasks difficult or impossible.

There's certainly the possibility that some symptoms of Mental Illness may have positive effects, or appear to do so. A Face in a Manic phase might pull off an incredible con, because they just had to do it. Paranoia may keep a runner alive - just like they say "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you."

But I'll say again, this sort of thing, if you intend to do it realistically, requires an incredibly deft hand and understanding on the part of the player and GM. If you don't intend to play it realistically, then I recommend the Tuna, it's got excellent heft.

[Christian Lafay]

While not a Shadowrunner I always liked the problems that Slick Henry from Mona Lisa Overdrive had as it seemed to give him more flavor. And then there is the joke of the two characters (street sams, I believe) who believe the only thing that can stop them are mimes since one is scared of clowns and the other has a problem with the French. For many 'runners though I can see any mental problem they may possess as either reasons they are unable to "work a normal job" or they reason they simply don't care to. Perhaps it is just understood that everyone has a reason to run the shadows and that people with conditions such as believing they are Jesus are just more upfront about their reasons, whether they intend to be or not.

[Jaid]

i would suspect most runners aren't exactly mentally stable. if they were, they probably wouldn't be shadowrunners. i mean, even if, say, you're working for ares and your boss tries to kill you or something. if you're one of the absolute best of the best in the world at your job (and most 400 BP runners seem to be there or close to it), unless you have some really *serious* problems, someone else is going to be willing to hire you.

now, that doesn't mean you're completely insane, like you belong in a nice padded room where you can't harm anyone. but it does mean that you're probably (for example) obsessed with something, though perhaps not to the point of it being a mental illness, or that you don't get along well with others, though not necessarily to the level of it being a mental illness, and so forth with various other problems.

generally speaking, i don't think you're going to get too many particularly sane people who will happily sign up for a life as a shadowrunner when there are probably safer, better paying jobs out there where you're not being hired specifically because you happen to be an expendable resource. even if you refuse to work for megacorps, for example, well... at least for those 400 BP folks, odds are good you've got enough skills you could start your own business. even a street sam (which i consider to be the least marketable skill set in a typical runner team - though this has more to do with the fact that the other skill sets are ludicrously good for making money than it has to do with street sams having a less valuable skill set) could probably hire out as a body guard for someone with a lot of money, or as a private investigator, or a bounty hunter, for example.

[Critias]

You can be crazy all you want, as long as you're competent. If you can clamp that shit down long enough to make it through a job and carry your weight? If you don't screw up after the fact and bring the heat? Yeah, sure. Who cares?

But, then, I've long advocated the "something has to be wrong with someone, for them to have these great skills and still be a shadowrunner" outlook.

[Raiden]

You can be crazy all you want, as long as you're competent. If you can clamp that shit down long enough to make it through a job and carry your weight? If you don't screw up after the fact and bring the heat? Yeah, sure. Who cares?

But, then, I've long advocated the "something has to be wrong with someone, for them to have these great skills and still be a shadowrunner" outlook.

IDK some people just love the thrill, and the adventure, not to mention the money, ( of course they wouldnt be doing things that seemed simple stupid and didnt pay well)

[Dakka Dakka]

IDK some people just love the thrill, and the adventure, not to mention the money, ( of course they wouldnt be doing things that seemed simple stupid and didnt pay well)

Well there are similar jobs from corporate or government employers. If you are skilled the corps might even pay decent money.

[Midas]

Could be an interesting character to play, although beware falling into the trap of creating an OTT PC that jars with the table gamestyle, annoys the group, or upsets the group harmony. You seem to have a sensible head on you, but make sure you do not play the character too vocally (limelight dominating or game slowing behavior in the name of "roleplaying"), and be especially careful the character will not offend anyone's religious or political beliefs or engage in sociopathic behavior that makes anyone at the table uncomfortable.

The idea of a quirky/comedic/dramatic/suicidal personafix NQ certainly can make for an interesting character and provide roleplaying opportunities, but one way to dial things down might be to take the Buggy Ware NQ so the personafix only kicks in occasionally (no doubt at the most inconvenient or inappropriate times, but still). This way the NQ will not drown out other aspects of the character or become a restrictive roleplaying crutch.

In the larger question of what sort of psychoses/flaws/behavior other professional runners would/wouldn't put up with, I think it must vary from runner to runner depending on their moral compass and definition of acceptable/unacceptable behavior.

If I were a runner, I would want to know that my teammates would be able to succeed in their role, stay outta my way so I can get on with mine, watch my back, and not create unnecessary problems/complications or stab me in the back.

[FuelDrop]

Could be an interesting character to play, although beware falling into the trap of creating an OTT PC that jars with the table gamestyle, annoys the group, or upsets the group harmony. You seem to have a sensible head on you, but make sure you do not play the character too vocally (limelight dominating or game slowing behavior in the name of "roleplaying"), and be especially careful the character will not offend anyone's religious or political beliefs or engage in sociopathic behavior that makes anyone at the table uncomfortable.

All good advice, however 1) He's already in play and 2) he's not my character. and yes, the datajack is buggy 'ware. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Midas]

Now you mention it, I do seem to remember someone posting a bible-thumping redneck that meets your description in a thread a few months back ...

[FuelDrop]

Now you mention it, I do seem to remember someone posting a bible-thumping redneck that meets your description in a thread a few months back ...

Probably from when I posted the build to get people's opinions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Raiden]

I like the char, I think it can fall in the lines of, hey, Im giong to mess things up enough to be funny, and make it more fun. but not to the extent of ruining the expereince

[FuelDrop]

the player is an old-school veteran from back in the second-third edition days, when he was playing in collage. As a result he tends to play it well.

I think the best bit so far was when he glitched a composure check as the building he was in was being shredded by a light tank (a gang had gotten hold of one, along with a metric ton of APDS and assault cannon ammo. we ended up relieving them of the vehicle), where his response was to drop to his knees and start praying. By pure fluke he managed to avoid getting hit after several rounds of suppression fire, at which point we'd pummeled the tank enough to distract it. He charged out screaming his sins at the top of his voice (Was going to be the enemy's sins, but he crit-glitched his knowledge: biblical (Sins+2) check) and leaped into the tank, taking out the driver with his krime stopper before turning the main gun on the rest of the 'Sinners', also known as the gang. BTW the gang were a subset of humanis policlub and had blown up his church the night before, so don't feel too much sympathy.

It was every bit as awesome as it sounds.

[KarmaInferno]

Halt, sinners!



-k

[StealthSigma]

Well there are similar jobs from corporate or government employers. If you are skilled the corps might even pay decent money.

I would say that SINners would have the hardest justification in the shadows for this reason. Not so much for the SINless and criminal SINners.

[The Jopp]

This part is very much left to roleplay.

How does the team dynamic go when you have one VERY twitchy streetsam with a mean streak, an excommunicated corporate hacker wageslave turned runner due to finding evidence of high level ARES employees embezzlement that has only seen guns in trids.

Add more with the slightly racist (anti elf) Troll rat shaman that smells slightly of sewer since he has Agoraphobia and prefer a roof over his head.

Then we take a stereotypical pampered rich elf lady who runs for adrenaline and has extreme daddy issues and enjoys cutting people...

Finally we have the dour old ex-mil rigger with a beat up van and no money who relieves his glory days in the 50's when he had money and firepower - something he has when his hands arent shaking and he has his good old trusty bottle of booze.

An explosive mix that can take down any opposition that most likely SHOULD explode from within just because their personalities would most likely either kill them all by accident or they kill each other.

THEN we add psychological sicknesses to that...

You'd NEED insanity to WANT or be DESPERATE to work with people like that.

[Iduno]

It isn't always that the corps won't let them in. They may just like the freedom of being a freelancer. There probably aren't many decent-paying jobs available for people who want to be their own boss. Most of those will probably get taken over my the corps or syndicates as soon as they start paying well.

[Neraph]

This part is very much left to roleplay.

How does the team dynamic go when you have one VERY twitchy streetsam with a mean streak, an excommunicated corporate hacker wageslave turned runner due to finding evidence of high level ARES employees embezzlement that has only seen guns in trids.

Add more with the slightly racist (anti elf) Troll rat shaman that smells slightly of sewer since he has Agoraphobia and prefer a roof over his head.

Then we take a stereotypical pampered rich elf lady who runs for adrenaline and has extreme daddy issues and enjoys cutting people...

Finally we have the dour old ex-mil rigger with a beat up van and no money who relieves his glory days in the 50's when he had money and firepower - something he has when his hands arent shaking and he has his good old trusty bottle of booze.

An explosive mix that can take down any opposition that most likely SHOULD explode from within just because their personalities would most likely either kill them all by accident or they kill each other.

THEN we add psychological sicknesses to that...

You'd NEED insanity to WANT or be DESPERATE to work with people like that.

... They fight crime!

[Jaid]

I would say that SINners would have the hardest justification in the shadows for this reason. Not so much for the SINless and criminal SINners.

if a mega wants you to work for them, they can just issue you a SIN. if you're a 400 BP shadowrunner, odds are you're skilled enough to be worth the bother... if you're stable. likewise, they're not too likely to care about criminal SIN as long as they think you'll do what they tell you to do.

It isn't always that the corps won't let them in. They may just like the freedom of being a freelancer. There probably aren't many decent-paying jobs available for people who want to be their own boss. Most of those will probably get taken over my the corps or syndicates as soon as they start paying well.

you can be a freelancer without being a criminal. if you're a private business, a corporation can't buy you out unless you choose for that to happen. organized crime may very well come after you, but most likely they're going to mostly leave you alone, because they're not stupid enough to push you to the point where you kill off a bunch of important people in their organization. sure, they'll kill you... but not without losses. not at the 400 BP level, unless they have advance notice that you're coming.

a 400 BP shadowrunner is certainly not someone that throws around as much clout as a mafia don. but they're not someone you want to have angry at you either. in their own right, they are a dangerous person. you would have to be an idiot to push too far. people will want their cut, but the kind of person who turns into a 400 BP shadowrunner is not the kind of person you ever want angry at you.

[Byrel]

you can be a freelancer without being a criminal. if you're a private business, a corporation can't buy you out unless you choose for that to happen. organized crime may very well come after you, but most likely they're going to mostly leave you alone, because they're not stupid enough to push you to the point where you kill off a bunch of important people in their organization. sure, they'll kill you... but not without losses. not at the 400 BP level, unless they have advance notice that you're coming.

a 400 BP shadowrunner is certainly not someone that throws around as much clout as a mafia don. but they're not someone you want to have angry at you either. in their own right, they are a dangerous person. you would have to be an idiot to push too far. people will want their cut, but the kind of person who turns into a 400 BP shadowrunner is not the kind of person you ever want angry at you.

Meh. I'm not so sure. I'm quite sympathetic to the notion that anyone short of a mega will take some trouble to either avoid massively annoying a runner team, or to aim for its total destruction. A runner team is a group who makes a living doing unpleasant things to organizations your size. Yeah, they're weaker than you, and you can probably wipe most of them if necessary, but it's easier to avoid it in most cases.

I don't think the same follows for a 400BP (IE equally skilled) legal, freelancer. It simply isn't as obvious that they may be dangerous. If I'm, say, a freelance rigger (maybe flying legit transport? Or running a dock with several forklifts?) it doesn't follow that I'm runner-dangerous. Sure, my rigging skills are obvious, and they may even know I have loads of IPs, rigger nanites, and whatever else fills out my build. But that's a long way from a runner, as you almost certainly lack the shadow connections, street-sense, and ambiguous morals necessary for a runner. You're no different from any other skilled, talented geek, and the Mafia won't hesitate to push you around. The same goes for a legal street-sam-equivalent. Maybe you work as an enforcer or bodyguard. Maybe you're ex-military special forces, and drawing a pension, doing guard duty on the side. They may be a little less eager to persuade you physically, but organized crime is good at aiming for weak points. Got a kid? Wife? Friend? House? Any of the above will be used as leverage against you. They'll be smart about how the coerce you, but they'll do it unflinchingly, the more so if you seem potentially dangerous. (After they try to recruit you...)

The key is that legit contractors or freelancers will probably have stability. They'll have a constant address, no real enemies, a contact number for jobs. Bolt holes and safehouses are really unlikely for all but the most paranoid. If you need to send a squad of enforcers, you know where and when, and they have noone to call for backup but KE. Who you already are used to dealing with or evading. This is all different from shadowrunners, where common-sense, minimal precautions are tighter than the most paranoid survivalist in legitimate business.

To put it another way, only a freelancer who took paranoid has a backup, unused SIN. Fully half of the runner population does.

I mean, this has actually been explored in some fiction, like Path of the Fury. Massively powerful people (prime runners) may not seem like it when in normal business.

[Neraph]

Another important difference is that a legal freelancer would not be able to (or not be as able to) take clandestine moves against a mega that wants to take their business whereas a mega would not be so impeded. A mega could afford a 'runner team to muscle out freelancer competition. A freelancer would not be anywhere near as successful.

Back to OP though: I'm not convinced that 'runners need to be mentally unstable to 'run. That seems like an easy RP cop-out to me. Better yet would be an underprivileged underdog trying to make a living, or a legitimate SINner that has a significant bone to pick where they needed to turn to the shadows to achieve their goal.

I have an AI rigger who's in a humanoid drone body who's backstory is that he's the result of an experimental information-gathering drone created by Knight Errant to operate autonomously in the field and report back with information gained. He achieved sentience through long field operations without proper memory wipes and works for KE as a private investigator. However, while his original programming has created in him a desire for justice and defense of the law, it has grown to include the ability to exploit the grey areas of the law and the ability to justify breaking laws through grey means - allowing him to run the shadows when he believes the case is warranted. I was inspired by the Penny-Arcade Automata/Blood and Oil shorts, and the character is complete with an armored business suit and a penchant for revolvers, like the 1970's PI concept he's vaguely modeled after. Very fun to play, and not really insane by any means.

[Jaid]

a rigger who hasn't got any of the skills to be a shadowrunner is obviously not going to be able to be a shadowrunner.

the people who have the skills to become a good shadowrunner *will* have access to those sorts of things. not necessarily every one, but it's a bit absurd to compare someone who is basically like an airline pilot to a trained combat rigger and say that since the airline pilot doesn't have any significant abilities to survive being put into dangerous situations, that the drone rigger must also not have anything along those lines.

[The Jopp]

... They fight crime!

*wince*

You HAD to go there.

That's it, Im gonna start a superhero thread.

[Byrel]

Well, my objection wasn't on the grounds that he lacked the skills; this rigger could be able to run a half dozen dobermans + aerial support in a low-level tacnet, and still lack the ability to stand up at all to, say, the Mafia. There's a big difference between being combat, infiltration, etc. capable, and being in a position to employ those skills effectively. The thing is, being a nonparanoid freelancer means being generally public. It probably means trying to work within external constraints (including laws and organizational influence.) It means lacking the need to upkeep shadow connections.

It isn't the lack of skills that makes them little threat; it's them not being in the shadows, and not having a good reason to make the (expensive) preparations for dodging the overwhelming force any sizable criminal organization can bring down. Shadowrunners deal with the daily threat of some target taking it personally, and coming after them. Of a response team pursuing them to recover an extracted individual or item. Of some Johnson screwing them over.

That makes it worth loads of time and effort to defend against these existential threats. And despite these efforts, shadowrunners have a ten percent annual retention rate, according to the sourcebooks. Someone without the connections, the backup plans, the defensive setup and general paranoia of a shadowrunner has no significant chance of evading the pressure a local Triad agent can bring down on them. Without evading that, you simply have no opportunity to cause major damage to the organization.

And this all ignores the detail that you don't have a team anymore. Successful shadowruns usually require a team to run successfully. (I admit a rigger/magician or similar is probably your best bet at a one-man shadowrunning team. Still nowhere nearly as effective as a four-man team of 400BP runners. ) Backup is critical to pulling you out of overwhelming force situations.

CAN an independent contractor cause a significant amount of damage before being taken out? Occasionally, with the right contractor, sure. But nowhere near often enough to make it worth the price of pussy-footing around potential assets/threats.