Shadowrunners: sanity not required? Options

[Byrel]

Also, on a more OP subject: Another reason a runner may not be able to get a corp job is reputation. One character I'm running in a PBE game was an Ares weapons designer, a rising star inside their Seattle offices. The higher-ups framed him for a series of 'design errors' that caused a lot of weapons sold to other militaries to fail. They successfully blackened his name as criminally incompetent, and attempted to eliminate him (which he escaped with WAY too much luck for any decent wageslave.) He runs the shadows, because noone thinks he's as good as he is.

(If the game lasts long enough, and he survives, I look forward to retiring him as some sort of regional, armorer-mechanic for runners. He's WAY too soft-minded for a permanent runner.)

Basically, a corp can't look at your charsheet. They rely on potentially faulty info on both your skills, and your stability. It's perfectly reasonable for a runner to have a bad rep for reliability or skills, without actually being any sort of insane or incompetent.

[FuelDrop]

Also, on a more OP subject: Another reason a runner may not be able to get a corp job is reputation. One character I'm running in a PBE game was an Ares weapons designer, a rising star inside their Seattle offices. The higher-ups framed him for a series of 'design errors' that caused a lot of weapons sold to other militaries to fail. They successfully blackened his name as criminally incompetent, and attempted to eliminate him (which he escaped with WAY too much luck for any decent wageslave.) He runs the shadows, because noone thinks he's as good as he is.

(If the game lasts long enough, and he survives, I look forward to retiring him as some sort of regional, armorer-mechanic for runners. He's WAY too soft-minded for a permanent runner.)

Basically, a corp can't look at your charsheet. They rely on potentially faulty info on both your skills, and your stability. It's perfectly reasonable for a runner to have a bad rep for reliability or skills, without actually being any sort of insane or incompetent.

I love this idea. mind if i steal it?

[Byrel]

Mind! That's a great compliment! I've only started shadowrun recently, and this was the first character I ever designed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Have at him.

[Lionhearted]

From a RL perspective there's a clear correlation between insanity of a runner and the sanity of the player, that or the fact that when you're asked to make whatever character you like with no regards to pesky details such as character classes... Odds are that you either gonna try and replicate a favourite fictional character or make the most sany shit you can come up with.
Like a satyr shaman biker wearing a humanis (I think? "Even the devil have pointy ears") leather jacket and having Elvis as his totem, it's not everyday you see a spirit of hounddog
From an RP perspective... Deep weed is one hell of a drug

(Everyone that at some point made Wolverine say aye)

[Neraph]

Well, my objection wasn't on the grounds that he lacked the skills; this rigger could be able to run a half dozen dobermans + aerial support in a low-level tacnet, and still lack the ability to stand up at all to, say, the Mafia. There's a big difference between being combat, infiltration, etc. capable, and being in a position to employ those skills effectively. The thing is, being a nonparanoid freelancer means being generally public. It probably means trying to work within external constraints (including laws and organizational influence.) It means lacking the need to upkeep shadow connections.

It isn't the lack of skills that makes them little threat; it's them not being in the shadows, and not having a good reason to make the (expensive) preparations for dodging the overwhelming force any sizable criminal organization can bring down. Shadowrunners deal with the daily threat of some target taking it personally, and coming after them. Of a response team pursuing them to recover an extracted individual or item. Of some Johnson screwing them over.

That makes it worth loads of time and effort to defend against these existential threats. And despite these efforts, shadowrunners have a ten percent annual retention rate, according to the sourcebooks. Someone without the connections, the backup plans, the defensive setup and general paranoia of a shadowrunner has no significant chance of evading the pressure a local Triad agent can bring down on them. Without evading that, you simply have no opportunity to cause major damage to the organization.

And this all ignores the detail that you don't have a team anymore. Successful shadowruns usually require a team to run successfully. (I admit a rigger/magician or similar is probably your best bet at a one-man shadowrunning team. Still nowhere nearly as effective as a four-man team of 400BP runners. ) Backup is critical to pulling you out of overwhelming force situations.

CAN an independent contractor cause a significant amount of damage before being taken out? Occasionally, with the right contractor, sure. But nowhere near often enough to make it worth the price of pussy-footing around potential assets/threats.

But again, the issue is that you may not have to avoid the large criminal organizations - you also have to avoid upsetting the megas who can also hire deniable assets to confront you as well.

Mind! That's a great compliment! I've only started shadowrun recently, and this was the first character I ever designed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Have at him.

We should start a thread resource for retired characters with RP notes and such for games to use as NPCs.

(Everyone that at some point made Wolverine say aye)

Thought long and hard about it but I've resisted the urge thusfar.

[MADness]

From a RL perspective there's a clear correlation between insanity of a runner and the sanity of the player, that or the fact that when you're asked to make whatever character you like with no regards to pesky details such as character classes... Odds are that you either gonna try and replicate a favourite fictional character or make the most sany shit you can come up with.
Like a satyr shaman biker wearing a humanis (I think? "Even the devil have pointy ears") leather jacket and having Elvis as his totem, it's not everyday you see a spirit of hounddog
From an RP perspective... Deep weed is one hell of a drug

(Everyone that at some point made Wolverine say aye)

Never made Wolverine. I have made the guy from District 13, a Grammatin Cleric, Alton Brown, Lone Wolf (of Joe Dever's series), Sailor Moon, Murdaface (my brother's gangsta rap alter ego), Jesus, and myself.

I had a lot of points left over on that last one.

[Neraph]

Never made Wolverine. I have made the guy from District 13, a Grammatin Cleric, Alton Brown, Lone Wolf (of Joe Dever's series), Sailor Moon, Murdaface (my brother's gangsta rap alter ego), Jesus, and myself.

I had a lot of points left over on that last one.

Grammaton Clerics are amazingly powerful. I still entertain the idea of a Grammaton Troll dual-wielding sniper rifles.

[Byrel]

But again, the issue is that you may not have to avoid the large criminal organizations - you also have to avoid upsetting the megas who can also hire deniable assets to confront you as well.

I agree totally; in fact I think the average 400BP runner team will need to be pretty careful about upsetting the megas too. Their notion of overwhelming force is both deniable and orders of magnitude greater than what the Mafia can bring to bear in most places.

We should start a thread resource for retired characters with RP notes and such for games to use as NPCs.

Sounds quite useful! I don't have any to contribute ATM, but I would enjoy reading the tales of the retired runners of yore...

[Jaid]

Well, my objection wasn't on the grounds that he lacked the skills; this rigger could be able to run a half dozen dobermans + aerial support in a low-level tacnet, and still lack the ability to stand up at all to, say, the Mafia. There's a big difference between being combat, infiltration, etc. capable, and being in a position to employ those skills effectively. The thing is, being a nonparanoid freelancer means being generally public. It probably means trying to work within external constraints (including laws and organizational influence.) It means lacking the need to upkeep shadow connections.

It isn't the lack of skills that makes them little threat; it's them not being in the shadows, and not having a good reason to make the (expensive) preparations for dodging the overwhelming force any sizable criminal organization can bring down. Shadowrunners deal with the daily threat of some target taking it personally, and coming after them. Of a response team pursuing them to recover an extracted individual or item. Of some Johnson screwing them over.

That makes it worth loads of time and effort to defend against these existential threats. And despite these efforts, shadowrunners have a ten percent annual retention rate, according to the sourcebooks. Someone without the connections, the backup plans, the defensive setup and general paranoia of a shadowrunner has no significant chance of evading the pressure a local Triad agent can bring down on them. Without evading that, you simply have no opportunity to cause major damage to the organization.

And this all ignores the detail that you don't have a team anymore. Successful shadowruns usually require a team to run successfully. (I admit a rigger/magician or similar is probably your best bet at a one-man shadowrunning team. Still nowhere nearly as effective as a four-man team of 400BP runners. ) Backup is critical to pulling you out of overwhelming force situations.

CAN an independent contractor cause a significant amount of damage before being taken out? Occasionally, with the right contractor, sure. But nowhere near often enough to make it worth the price of pussy-footing around potential assets/threats.

generally the organized crime will also have to pull their punches against someone not in the shadows though. if you gun someone down in the barrens, it isn't even a statistic because that would imply someone cares enough to track the information.

if you gun someone down in downtown seattle, that's gonna draw way more attention than you want. a big crime organization can probably cover it up, but then you're spending more resources than it's worth.

it isn't worth their time to seriously lean on someone that small who can deal that much damage. likewise with the megas; when you're not in the shadows, they can't just send in a high threat response team to shoot you whenever they feel like it. it's bad for business, and frankly, unless you actually become big enough, you're simply not a threat to them that they should bother paying attention to you anyways.

edit: to clarify, these organizations don't technically *have* to pull their punches. the mafia *could* pay to have a 9' tall troll throw you off a bridge or something. but the person who authorized that would likely find themselves also getting thrown off a bridge by a 9' tall bridge for drawing too much attention.

[Krishach]

Interesting thread.

I find myself lately playing a number of neurotic runners because it makes for interesting roleplay. Usually it's something that either foils well with the team, or something they could maybe deal with if it comes off at a bad time.

I mentioned a Phys Adept Brawler Hobgoblin before. Hobgoblins, of course, have Vindictive. I also took Berserk. And Combat Monster. And a Will+Cha pool of 4. Sorta like Jet Li from Unleashed, but with really low odds on a collar.

The hysterical thing is, 1/2 the party is scared to death of this runner, because of these qualities, my characters tendency to mistake how others perceive things, and the GMs beautifully visceral descriptions of my sometimes outrageously lucky combat dicerolls. I once tried to tell the mage to follow me while I was unseen by said mage. When he didn't move, I picked him up to hurry things. When he then tried to electrocute his unknown assailant, I slammed him against the roof until he stopped, then kept going. All without talking further to him.

I ended up using him as an opponent NPC in a run I GM'd. One of the characters who shot my Hobgoblin spent the next 2 sessions pants-pissing scared that I was coming for him (Hadn't even seen him: failed the perception vs stealth roll).

[OptimumStratego]

edit: to clarify, these organizations don't technically *have* to pull their punches. the mafia *could* pay to have a 9' tall troll throw you off a bridge or something. but the person who authorized that would likely find themselves also getting thrown off a bridge by a 9' tall bridge for drawing too much attention.

Note to self: Make a 9' tall Spirit of Architecture; investigate feasibility of Bone Lacing (Steel Girders). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[StealthSigma]

edit: to clarify, these organizations don't technically *have* to pull their punches. the mafia *could* pay to have a 9' tall troll throw you off a bridge or something. but the person who authorized that would likely find themselves also getting thrown off a bridge by a 9' tall bridge for drawing too much attention.

I would like to see the character sheet for the bolded portion.

[FuelDrop]

I would like to see the character sheet for the bolded portion.

Well, we know that whole islands have awakened... why not a bridge?