Question about the Traceroute Echo in Unwired... Options

[Jonny Reload]

(Sorry, meant to write Traceroute Power in the subject line)

I was a little thrown off by the wording when a friend brought it to my attention, I always just assumed it was for tracing anything interacting with the Matrix (Comlinks, Agents, Pilots, etc.) But then he pointed out interacting with the Matrix also means "Being caught on Video Surveillance" and with that logic asked if he could use Traceroute to find people who had walked in front of a security camera anywhere in the world?

(Ex. He has some data on there Johnson, and wants to see where he goes or where he lives..... So he wants to see what routes the Johnson usually takes to guess where his home is by seeing what Video Cameras on the street he walks across)

As a side question, does this vague term also mean physically interacting with things connected to the Matrix without using a Comlink? (ex. You shut down a node via destroying the Drone that the node was hosted in, Someone is recording your voice with some spy gadget that's hooked up to a comlink, etc.)

[Makki]

I think, that's exactly what this Sprite Power does. I haven't seen this coming up ever before. Actually, this makes the Sprite Link echo a high priority choice for every Runner TM.
The question is, how do normal Hackers and Technomancers do this manually? Hardison from Leverage can do it. Facial Recognition and Gait Analysis software are state of the art, but you'd need access to every node in the world. Does the sprite use the resonance shortcut and the deep resonance archive?
Or is this something beyond human doability due to the overwhelming amount of data in 2070? Which would mean, that Big Brother is not a problem, unless he hires Sprites. But they can only follow so many persons per day.

[Manunancy]

From reading the paragraph, I have the impression the 'video cam' comment is a mistake as the rest of the desciption makes it clear that what is followed is matrix interaction as in anytime the person identify itself on the martix. So you could trace him when the doorwatch camera of a shop detects there's someone and hails his IDcode before letting him in, but the security cam on a blimp half a mile away that looks for flash mobs and riots through crowd density and motion aptterns won't register.

In my mind it's that you pinpoint the person anytime it dientifies itself in the matrix - including the 2070 equivalent of having your cellphone contacting new relays as you move around.

Ediited for clarification : I means 'mistake in the writing of the book', not 'mistake in interpretation' - just like Jonny Reload that specfic mention has me wondering WTF does that do here as every other single occurence is basically something on the followed character connecting in one way or the other with the matrix..

[Jonny Reload]

From reading the paragraph, I have the impression teh 'video cam' comment is a mistake as the rest of the desciption makes it clear that what is followed is matrix interaction as in anytime the person identify itself on the martix. So you could trace him when the doorwatch camera of a shop detects there's someone and hails his IDcode before letting him in, but the security cam on a blimp half a mile away that looks for flash mobs and riots through crowd density and motion aptterns won't register.

In my mind it's that you pinpoint the person anytime it dientifies itself in the matrix - including the 2070 equivalent of having your cellphone contacting new relays as you move around.

No it's not a mistake, that's exactly what it states in the book, otherwise I'd 100% agree with you. It lists Matrix Action, Matrix Action, Matrix Action, Matrix Action, Real World Action......?!? It's kinda like the "duck duck goose" of writing in the book where one of the statements doesn't belong.... But they wrote in "being captured on video surveillance footage" as an example of interacting with the Matrix (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Cabral]

No it's not a mistake, that's exactly what it states in the book, otherwise I'd 100% agree with you. It lists Matrix Action, Matrix Action, Matrix Action, Matrix Action, Real World Action......?!? It's kinda like the "duck duck goose" of writing in the book where one of the statements doesn't belong.... But they wrote in "being captured on video surveillance footage" as an example of interacting with the Matrix (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

I think he meant that it was a mistake on the author's part. There are a few inconsistencies between the main book and Unwired.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think he meant that it was a mistake on the author's part. There are a few inconsistencies between the main book and Unwired.

Well, your picture is now on the Matrix, as it was stored somewhere, and is available to be viewed, assuming you have acess rights to do so. As Such, yes, being caught on a camera does count as interacting with the Matrix. However, the sheer amount opf such data is staggering (to say the least), and you will likely spend a lot of time, if you are searching the entire world's public databases. And once those did not give you anything (or what you were lokking for), then a lot more hours on the worlds less than public databases. Likely a lot of effort for very little return. *shrug*

[Jonny Reload]

Well, your picture is now on the Matrix, as it was stored somewhere, and is available to be viewed, assuming you have acess rights to do so. As Such, yes, being caught on a camera does count as interacting with the Matrix. However, the sheer amount opf such data is staggering (to say the least), and you will likely spend a lot of time, if you are searching the entire world's public databases. And once those did not give you anything (or what you were lokking for), then a lot more hours on the worlds less than public databases. Likely a lot of effort for very little return. *shrug*

Yes but were not talking about Mundane Matrix searches, were talking about a power that says "Achieve a Threshold of X, you find the Node or Physical location the target has most recently has interacted with or is in." This cuts out all the leg work and basically skips all the searching and tells you exactly where the person is. My original question was "is being filmed" considered interacting with the Matrix but the consensus seems to be pointing to yes... I wish there was an errata or clarification for this power as it seems WAY more powerful then I first realized.

Johnson: I need you to find the daughter of a CEO who has employed your servic...
Technomancer: Found her!

[Makki]

It's the same as the Search power spirits have. An I-win-button, if you don't use the optional rule of diminishing dice pool.

[Jonny Reload]

It's the same as the Search power spirits have. An I-win-button, if you don't use the optional rule of diminishing dice pool.

.... Fair point. Now I feel much more justified letting him use it as such since Mages basically have spirits with the same thing.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yes but were not talking about Mundane Matrix searches, were talking about a power that says "Achieve a Threshold of X, you find the Node or Physical location the target has most recently has interacted with or is in." This cuts out all the leg work and basically skips all the searching and tells you exactly where the person is. My original question was "is being filmed" considered interacting with the Matrix but the consensus seems to be pointing to yes... I wish there was an errata or clarification for this power as it seems WAY more powerful then I first realized.

Johnson: I need you to find the daughter of a CEO who has employed your servic...
Technomancer: Found her!

Just because you found the last node, it does not mean you have found the person. It just means you found the last node they interacted with. That is a very different thing. *shrug*

[Dolanar]

does the power tell you WHEN they last interacted with said node? if not it could have been days ago & they could be hiding in a dead zone with no wireless signals available.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

does the power tell you WHEN they last interacted with said node? if not it could have been days ago & they could be hiding in a dead zone with no wireless signals available.

Indeed, which was my point.

[Sengir]

The question is, how do normal Hackers and Technomancers do this manually?

Data Search, lock for everything related to an image of the target.

[Jonny Reload]

Indeed, which was my point.

Your missing my point though, I wasn't asking for the "WHEN" I was simply asking for the "HOW" this power works. Clearly unless the guy is standing in front of a camera that's linked up to the Matrix, this only gives you the last known video capture of him. I would assume the video capture would have a time stamp on the file therefor telling you WHEN he was last seen on the camera. (Obviously there are ways around this and etc. but that's up for the player and GM to further push around... Which I'd rather not get into on here since some of the players tend to read these forums) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

As for Sengir, Data Search only does so much for you. Doing a data search will give you "What obvious databases MIGHT have video images pertaining to your target." You still have to break into them, locate the files (if there even in the database) and not get brainfried by the IC. At least with Traceroute, you guaranteed know exactly WHERE to look, even though you have to do some Exploit rolls to get into the Node.

[Bearclaw]

It seems as though if the Sprite can trace a guy to where he is right now, any decent TM ought to be able to hack a nearby camera right? Tracking an image through traffic is a million times more difficult than tracking a MAC address through the web. Especially if you have a starting point.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Your missing my point though, I wasn't asking for the "WHEN" I was simply asking for the "HOW" this power works. Clearly unless the guy is standing in front of a camera that's linked up to the Matrix, this only gives you the last known video capture of him. I would assume the video capture would have a time stamp on the file therefor telling you WHEN he was last seen on the camera. (Obviously there are ways around this and etc. but that's up for the player and GM to further push around... Which I'd rather not get into on here since some of the players tend to read these forums) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Yes, that is the When, but the how (he interacted with the Matrix) is that he got captured on the Camara feed to start with. AS someone else mentioned upthread, it is the Sprite version of the Spirit Power Search. But still, all it shows is interaction with the Matrix. It does not give current positioning unless the target is currently interacting with Matrix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As for Sengir, Data Search only does so much for you. Doing a data search will give you "What obvious databases MIGHT have video images pertaining to your target." You still have to break into them, locate the files (if there even in the database) and not get brainfried by the IC. At least with Traceroute, you guaranteed know exactly WHERE to look, even though you have to do some Exploit rolls to get into the Node.

Of course.... except that for most data Searches, once you have found the location of the data, you have actually found the data. The difficulty represents what you are describing (and yes, the dificulties are trivial for most data, unless you are using reducing pools, and often even then). There is not generally any further hacking required for data that you can find. You can, of course, implement such things, but they are not standard. Which is why you have entrieds on the difficulty that represent non-available data.

[Sengir]

But still, all it shows is interaction with the Matrix. It does not give current positioning unless the target is currently interacting with Matrix. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I would interpret this requirement as that the camera has to run some sort of image recognition which recognizes the person, because only in that case you actually have the infromation "person X was seen at location y at time z" on the matrix. Otherwise, the image is just a bunch of pixels which is not connected to a name...although it would show up when using Data Search/Info Sortilege to find everything similar to an image of the target.


@Jonny:

Doing a data search will give you "What obvious databases MIGHT have video images pertaining to your target." You still have to break into them, locate the files (if there even in the database) and not get brainfried by the IC. At least with Traceroute, you guaranteed know exactly WHERE to look, even though you have to do some Exploit rolls to get into the Node.

The only kind of info safe from Data Search is offline info, anything else just increases the threshold