[X] My Assistant

[X-Kalibur]

They actually hit the 5 million mark I believe. Making them highest crowd funded game yet.

[Falconer]

One thing I don't like is they say it's not pay to win... but now I learned they have some kind of ship insurance for backers. IE: if you pledged for that... you'll never lose that ship. And provided you do it before the game releases you can upgrade your permanently insured ship type if you're already in and backed it at the 30+ level.


When I hear that i think of people who spend for one of the bigger ships like the fighter, the freelancer, or up. then just keep respawning with a top flight fighter/freighter. Since I have no clue how ship unlocks will happen that might just be me taking that info for the worst...

[X-Kalibur]

One thing I don't like is they say it's not pay to win... but now I learned they have some kind of ship insurance for backers. IE: if you pledged for that... you'll never lose that ship. And provided you do it before the game releases you can upgrade your permanently insured ship type if you're already in and backed it at the 30+ level.


When I hear that i think of people who spend for one of the bigger ships like the fighter, the freelancer, or up. then just keep respawning with a top flight fighter/freighter. Since I have no clue how ship unlocks will happen that might just be me taking that info for the worst...

But they'll be losing any upgrades they've put in to the ship, you'll just always have a base version of that craft.

[Falconer]

You're misunderstanding the point... lets say I wanted to build a combatant character. In a game like EVE you need a good solid money making skill to keep yourself in ships... or you need to be that good. Some of my friends never understood why I was always flush with ISK. Because I saw combat not as needing to have the absolute best of the best but as a business proposition... so a lot of tech2 with a splash of meta4 here and there as fitting required and cost dictated. I rarely lost ships... but when i did it wasn't a big deal to replace them. With their lifetime insurance only for backers with their unlocks it's an even bigger deal.

If I'm always guaranteed to respawn in a basic outfitted Hornet lets say... lets look at the web page...
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ships-plan/

Aurora:
Hardpoints-
2 x Class 1: Equipped 1 x Behring Fixed M3A Laser Cannon
1 x Class 3: EMPTY

Hornet...
Hardpoints-
2 x Class 1: Equipped 2 x MaxOx NN-13 Neutron Gun
2 x Class 2: Equipped 2 x Klaus & Werner CF-117 Laser Gatling
2 x Class 3: Equipped 4x Talon Devastator (HS) missiles
2 x Class 4: None Equipped

That's significantly better than the little Aurora with a mere 2 basic laser cannon and an empty missile hardpoint.

Now if I'm doing a lot of PvP or combat missions... that's a significant advantage... especially if i restrict to cheap upgrades/armaments enhancements. Because the downside loss is so small... while the upside win is so high starting in a highly combat craft which is permanently insured.

Effectively... $60 gets you spawning in the 300i, $110 in your pick of the Drake(unsure on ship specs), Hornet(above), or Freelancer. That is very much pay to win heavily dependent on the implementation.

That's why the details of this insurance bit are so important and why it goes so close to pay to win which bothers me.

Without knowing much more... that as a baseline is probably good enough to blast most other things out of the water because it is a pure dedicated fighter even with basic armaments and without special upgrades.

[X-Kalibur]

You're misunderstanding the point... lets say I wanted to build a combatant character. In a game like EVE you need a good solid money making skill to keep yourself in ships... or you need to be that good. Some of my friends never understood why I was always flush with ISK. Because I saw combat not as needing to have the absolute best of the best but as a business proposition... so a lot of tech2 with a splash of meta4 here and there as fitting required and cost dictated. I rarely lost ships... but when i did it wasn't a big deal to replace them. With their lifetime insurance only for backers with their unlocks it's an even bigger deal.

If I'm always guaranteed to respawn in a basic outfitted Hornet lets say... lets look at the web page...
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ships-plan/

Aurora:
Hardpoints-
2 x Class 1: Equipped 1 x Behring Fixed M3A Laser Cannon
1 x Class 3: EMPTY

Hornet...
Hardpoints-
2 x Class 1: Equipped 2 x MaxOx NN-13 Neutron Gun
2 x Class 2: Equipped 2 x Klaus & Werner CF-117 Laser Gatling
2 x Class 3: Equipped 4x Talon Devastator (HS) missiles
2 x Class 4: None Equipped

That's significantly better than the little Aurora with a mere 2 basic laser cannon and an empty missile hardpoint.

Now if I'm doing a lot of PvP or combat missions... that's a significant advantage... especially if i restrict to cheap upgrades/armaments enhancements. Because the downside loss is so small... while the upside win is so high starting in a highly combat craft which is permanently insured.

Effectively... $60 gets you spawning in the 300i, $110 in your pick of the Drake(unsure on ship specs), Hornet(above), or Freelancer. That is very much pay to win heavily dependent on the implementation.

That's why the details of this insurance bit are so important and why it goes so close to pay to win which bothers me.

Without knowing much more... that as a baseline is probably good enough to blast most other things out of the water because it is a pure dedicated fighter even with basic armaments and without special upgrades.

Well, we don't yet know that it will be forever insured with those weapons. But we'll see what happens. (I'd also point out that there is mention of using up 4 upgrade slots on it to fit a ball turret (class 4) with additional laser gatlings and neutrons).

Also, 5.47 million. So close to that carrier being flyable in game. That could make for some epic carrier wars.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I popped in $60 today (with the promise of a refund in the amount of $30 from a friend who really really wanted me to get Star Citizen, heh.)

What can I say? When you describe something as the "BMW of the skies," I have to have it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This should be interesting. Since evidently they're planning to have the insides of the ships fully walk-through, and from some of their other comments, I can't help but wonder if "board the other guy's carrier, jump out and camp their flight deck with a squad of FPS junkies with machine guns and satchel charges" is going to be a nasty, valid strategy.

Hopefully someone thought to stock some security 'mechs or something, heh.

[almost normal]

If you've given up enough air superiority so as to allow a group of fighters to politely land? You deserve to lose.

Still, I doubt I'll pick this game up at any time. Mr. Roberts message was pretty clear, if you choose to buy the game at retail, fuck you. You should have bought it before.

This guy has quite the ego. I doubt it will last. It's just not a viable retail strategy. You can't tell people that others bought the game for cheaper and are getting more because they found out about it first. It just won't work.

[X-Kalibur]

If you've given up enough air superiority so as to allow a group of fighters to politely land? You deserve to lose.

Still, I doubt I'll pick this game up at any time. Mr. Roberts message was pretty clear, if you choose to buy the game at retail, fuck you. You should have bought it before.

This guy has quite the ego. I doubt it will last. It's just not a viable retail strategy. You can't tell people that others bought the game for cheaper and are getting more because they found out about it first. It just won't work.

We haven't had a good space sim in about a decade. Freelancer came out in... 2003? And it wasn't AMAZING, just good. This game will sell because if you want a space sim, you won't have any other choice. That's why it hit 6.3M

[almost normal]

X3 and its sequels offered more then Freelancer.

Didn't like it as much, but it's a current and well made option.

[Falconer]

Yes as opposed to mechwarrior online with its founders mechs and packages?!
This is different how?!
Mass Effect 2/3 come to mind with pre-order bonuses as well and many other big commercial titles. Dragon age? Assassins Creed 3 now advertising pre-order bonuses?

I pretty much take the same point of view... freelancer 10 years ago wasn't up to this, but it did lay a good foundation. Since then... nothing of note. The big thing with freelancer back then was it overpromised, then underdelivered. It may or may not have been because of microsoft taking it over, we'll never know. But it has 128 player private server capability and a non-dynamic economy. Both of which would be easier to rectify now.

X series I have as well. They're all single player sandbox games with no multiplayer though.


I may take issue with the lifetime insurance. But that's because the playtester in me immediately goes to look for ways it can be abused. And since nothing has been put in stone... or setup... or coded... even in an alpha state so far. That means I lock onto the the worst abuses I can think of. (EVE style suicide ganking with permanently insured vessels). But in-game insurance also might be so cheap that everyone buys it anyhow and it amounts to a drop in the bucket, a nice perk, but not exceptionally valuable in comparison.

[almost normal]

MWO is free to play. I haven't seen evidence that Star Citizen will be.

[X-Kalibur]

Yes as opposed to mechwarrior online with its founders mechs and packages?!
This is different how?!
Mass Effect 2/3 come to mind with pre-order bonuses as well and many other big commercial titles. Dragon age? Assassins Creed 3 now advertising pre-order bonuses?

I pretty much take the same point of view... freelancer 10 years ago wasn't up to this, but it did lay a good foundation. Since then... nothing of note. The big thing with freelancer back then was it overpromised, then underdelivered. It may or may not have been because of microsoft taking it over, we'll never know. But it has 128 player private server capability and a non-dynamic economy. Both of which would be easier to rectify now.

X series I have as well. They're all single player sandbox games with no multiplayer though.


I may take issue with the lifetime insurance. But that's because the playtester in me immediately goes to look for ways it can be abused. And since nothing has been put in stone... or setup... or coded... even in an alpha state so far. That means I lock onto the the worst abuses I can think of. (EVE style suicide ganking with permanently insured vessels). But in-game insurance also might be so cheap that everyone buys it anyhow and it amounts to a drop in the bucket, a nice perk, but not exceptionally valuable in comparison.

I did some research and the lifetime insurance is only on the hull of the ship. Weapons and upgrades are not included.

[Falconer]

Xkal... people in the various things have been saying it's the hull and basic fittings of the ship. So I have no clue what your sources are.

But since that's all so prelim... I assume the worst and hope for pleasant surprises.

Even if it isn't though... it still leaves the spam the hull... and load as many one-shot missiles as you can on the hardpoints strategy.

[X-Kalibur]

Xkal... people in the various things have been saying it's the hull and basic fittings of the ship. So I have no clue what your sources are.

But since that's all so prelim... I assume the worst and hope for pleasant surprises.

Even if it isn't though... it still leaves the spam the hull... and load as many one-shot missiles as you can on the hardpoints strategy.

That's not a strategy. My roommate and I had read that it was hull only, didn't mention basic fittings. In fact, to further that, I don't think anyone who spent the money to pledge is going to trolling with their infini-ship. Wrong crowd for those sorts of shenanigans. I will say this though - player ownable carriers will hopefully lead to some awesome cat and mouse fights.