Shooting people with blackpowder firearms in the future, A way to circumvent modern tracking technology? Options

[Wounded Ronin]

So, a short while back, there was a very fun thread someone started on bullshido.net about how if someone were legally barred from owning firearms in the US they could nevertheless legally own an "archaic" weapon system such as a cap and ball black powder firearm. The discussion then focused on the awesomeness of shooting a carjacker with a blackpowder weapon.

Thread: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=118509

Funniest post from that thread:

Very true. I have a persistent nagging desire to keep one of these fuckers loaded up in the console of my truck just for the hell of it. Could you imagine the look on the faces of the cops arriving on the scene after someone smoked a carjacker with one of those things?

The best part is the cops could get in on the fun because they'd have to take it out and shoot it to empty it before they could take it into evidence. Ha ha.

So, then I am thinking, in Shadowrun, one of the themes is paranoia. Every item can have some form of tracking associated with it. The gun you buy from your fixer may be hot. When the topic of cased versus caseless ammunition comes up, whether or not it's a realistic assertion, someone always says, "Oh with caseless you leave less evidence behind."

What better way to get around all the creepy big-brotherism of the setting than running with a brace of cap and ball revolvers? You manufacture your own black powder, you don't drop casings, and a large caliber slow-velocity lead bullet going through someone's chest is still super deadly.

In terms of game statistics, I'd make a black powder revolver perform worse against ballistic armor than a contemporary firearm, due to greater energy of smokeless powder and full metal jacket bullets in the contemporary firearm. I'd also give it a seperate set of range categories a bit shorter than a contemporary firearm, again due to the lower energy of the blackpowder load.

Perhaps the smoke caused by repeated firing of your blackpowder weapon could cause visibility based penalties for everyone involved in the firefight standing near you (including yourself) and people shooting at you.

Depending on how detailed you wanted to get, the GM could also come up with an extra roll for failure to fire depending on how long the blackpowder has been sitting in the gun, or the weather conditions. That's why you have a brace of pistols.

It's hard to imagine a better way to make your shadowrun character a raging badass than by having him terminate his cybered nemesis with a blackpowder weapon. Your enemy pulls out his caseless rifle, thinking he's the man, and then pop, low velocity lead bullet with a called shot, and the ownage ratio just gets absolutely huge in your favor since you were running a cap and ball pistol versus his G11.

If you think reloading a centerfire revolver in the middle of combat is masculine and badass, think how much more masculine and badass it would be to reload the cylinder on a cap and ball revolver...in combat. You'd have to have antifreeze running in your veins.

Yeah...if I ever play Shadowrun again, I'm going to make a character who runs cap and ball revolvers, and a musket with a bayonet.

[kzt]

No, a revolver with a bayonet!

You do need to buy the caps. Making blasting caps, detonators, percussion caps or primers at home is crazy dangerous.

[Manunancy]

There's no reason not to mix the old and the new - have your blackpowder gun fitted with an electric ignition system and you'll get rid of many problems - I'm not sure the electric ignition system from a gas cooker would be enough but odds are there's some heavy-duty version available that won't be traced as 'weapon part' and can be scrounged drom a dump rather than bought.

[Seriously Mike]

There's no reason not to mix the old and the new - have your blackpowder gun fitted with an electric ignition system and you'll get rid of many problems - I'm not sure the electric ignition system from a gas cooker would be enough but odds are there's some heavy-duty version available that won't be traced as 'weapon part' and can be scrounged drom a dump rather than bought.

That's just my kind of insanity, I love it!
But, what you should be worried about, I'm thinking about how to do it in real life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mister Shed]

You run into distinctive style territory though - not many people are going to be running around with black powder firearms so if you're the only one (or one of a few) in an area then there are going to be far fewer suspects for the cops/corp/gang to look at than if you were to pick up something conventional at the last minute and ditch it right after the job.

And they'd be pretty easily identifiable too as a lead ball is gonna leave a visibly different wound pattern than a full metal jacketed bullet would.

[Wounded Ronin]

You run into distinctive style territory though - not many people are going to be running around with black powder firearms so if you're the only one (or one of a few) in an area then there are going to be far fewer suspects for the cops/corp/gang to look at than if you were to pick up something conventional at the last minute and ditch it right after the job.

And they'd be pretty easily identifiable too as a lead ball is gonna leave a visibly different wound pattern than a full metal jacketed bullet would.

LOL at the reaction of the downtrodden police investigator at finding a John Woo massacre where everyone was shot by lead balls.

[Lionhearted]

Isn't blackpowder like... unreliable, incredibly smoke producing, very variable in its burn and messy as hell?
Not sure if the pros outweights the cons

[Draco18s]

Isn't blackpowder like... unreliable, incredibly smoke producing, very variable in its burn and messy as hell?
Not sure if the pros outweights the cons

Pros:
totally legal

Cons:
everything else

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Isn't blackpowder like... unreliable, incredibly smoke producing, very variable in its burn and messy as hell?
Not sure if the pros outweights the cons

It does vary in burn rate depending upon its form and consistency (Batches should be consistent, though); and it does produce a lot of Smoke, but it is not too messy... Besides, I love the Smell of Blackpowder (cordite too) after a gunfight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

Isn't it totally worthless when wet aswell?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Isn't it totally worthless when wet aswell?

Pretty much. Easy to keep dry, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Wounded Ronin]

Isn't blackpowder like... unreliable, incredibly smoke producing, very variable in its burn and messy as hell?
Not sure if the pros outweights the cons

It's also corrosive.

But hey, in the SR world people also choose to go up against fire teams swinging a crappy Cold Steel katana, so...

[almost normal]

Make it past security on the way to a meet. Go to the bathroom. Have the Jury Rigger quality. Make a blunderbuss out of the urinal piping. Make ammo from ceramic shards from a toilet (Surprisingly dangerous). Step out of the bathroom while dual wielding pisser pistols.

[Lionhearted]

He needs a oneliner!
Like... "Now Im pissed!"

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's also corrosive.

Indeed, Necessitating that you clean your weapon meticulously after firing it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

The best part is the cops could get in on the fun because they'd have to take it out and shoot it to empty it before they could take it into evidence.

this is actually an interesting question . . how would they be able to use it as evidence for anything, if it has to be fired to be used as evidence and thus is changed and not the thing that was supposed to be used as evidence?

[Warlordtheft]

Indeed, Necessitating that you clean your weapon meticulously after firing it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As a user of a cap and ball 1858 Remington revolver, yeah it gets messy. Most people nowadays use pyrodex pellets, but even that is still messy. Also, glitches could be bad and should be more often (cap falls of and jams the cylider).

Side note: I was talking to a forensics expert a while back about how they would do forensics on a black powder pistol revolver. She noted that the lever mechanism used would leave distinctive marks on the the ball that could be used to track it back to the weapon used. Another downside is that any explosives sniffer is gonna go mad when you get near it (unless you vaccum seal the entire gun).

[ShadowDragon8685]

Make it past security on the way to a meet. Go to the bathroom. Have the Jury Rigger quality. Make a blunderbuss out of the urinal piping. Make ammo from ceramic shards from a toilet (Surprisingly dangerous). Step out of the bathroom while dual wielding pisser pistols.

That would you get you two shots of 9P(f) damage, probably with a penalty to your shooting because, you know, you're using a frigging pisser pistol!

Make them count. Preferably by putting them right up against a motherfucker's temple before you pull the trigger.


Still, lethally McGuyvering yourself a couple of shotgun pistols out of the contents of the Men's room is pretty fecking awesome.

[Critias]

Pros:
totally legal

Cons:
everything else

This.

Yeah, you're bypassing (potentially) some forensics issues, and earning some major style points. But as weapons go, by today's standards they pretty much suck. Your concealability, rate of fire, accuracy, armor penetration, etc, etc, are in the crapper.

[Lionhearted]

McGuyvering

My friend told me that in portuguese there's a word for "doing a mcguyver" can't for the life of me remember what it is, however every language needs a word for that imho

[X-Kalibur]

My friend told me that in portuguese there's a word for "doing a mcguyver" can't for the life of me remember what it is, however every language needs a word for that imho

I will ask my Brazillian friend later what this word is.

[KarmaInferno]

"This guy was shot with a black powder weapon! How do we find the shooter?"

"Look for the guy with a black powder gun. There's what, like six in the entire state?"



-k

[Modular Man]

Make it past security on the way to a meet. Go to the bathroom. Have the Jury Rigger quality. Make a blunderbuss out of the urinal piping. Make ammo from ceramic shards from a toilet (Surprisingly dangerous). Step out of the bathroom while dual wielding pisser pistols.

Gonna do that sometime. I'm currently thinking of tinkering something out of the Street Sweeper anyway, that's slightly the right direction. If ever in need of sharp rubble to be fired at enemies, visit the restroom!
Combine with a small camera and standard detonator cap (to be found in the core rulebook), this can be triggered wirelessly and will make for a good trap barring a corridor.

The Street Sweeper is also the only weapon in Shadowrun 4 that actually uses blackpowder and a musket firing mechanism, or at least the description text says so. There's even prices for cubes of condensed black powder.
Can also be loaded with pretty much anything. Ball bearings double as a nice impromptu trap. Maybe even small packages of debris, held together with a low-grade glue for loading and carrying purposes, will do. Alternatively a bunch of nails, held together by a rubber band, could also do. Heck, I've even been thinking about launching a micro grenade (in a protective casing) this way, but some of these stunts still require a lot of GM fiat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Granted, this is not really on par with the original idea, and shooting an actual blunderbuss would be way more awesome. Sadly, I'm playing a character who I'd get killed this way.

[Halinn]

"This guy was shot with a black powder weapon! How do we find the shooter?"

"Look for the guy with a black powder gun. There's what, like six in the entire state?"



-k

The problem would be that it's not a registered weapon, and why should the police know that you have or use black powder weapons? Especially if you get a little gunsmithing going on in your Redmond hideout.

[Achsin]

I will ask my Brazillian friend later what this word is.

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