Aliens in shadowrun. Options

[almost normal]

Second of all, quantum entanglement, like in Mass effect. Is a real thing and is the closest we managed to teleportation

...Maybe.

Seriously, we don't know. It should, but it might not. It's like how we can break the speed of light sometimes, but only on a small scale.

Sizes screw with things. I'd like to see a probe launched with an entangled particle, and see how it works the further it goes out.

[Lionhearted]

True, the intent was however to explain how a civilisation with FTL communication wouldn't have FTL travel. In theory

[almost normal]

Makes sense. If they get a foothold, we're doomed, but until then we've got a chance.

[Daier Mune]

never thought of Aliens inside the SR universe, could be pretty cool.

I never remember, how did that plotline of the comet probe resolve? could be some alien hook in the lore there. Maybe take a look at "Rendezvous with Rama" or research Von Neumann devices, for the mothership/interstellar transportation concepts.

the sentient, interstellar AI is a possibliity too (planet-sized AI's need to procreate, too). Gibson's novels allude to that (isn't it the alien intelligence merging with the matrix what causes 'everything to change' and give birth to the technomancer concept?)

I would say that your aliens should be more technology focused (as magical aliens already exist in the form of Horrors & Insect Spirits). I like the concept that Udoshi put forward, of incorporating Resonance into the alien's ability set. Remember Asimov's rule: any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguisable from magic.

In all likelyhood, the Corps would probably be more interested in whatever tech the aliens possessed, however, you could play it where the aliens don't naturally have access to magic, and are abducting the awakened & experiementing on them in hopes of finding a way to awaken thier own species.

[hermit]

I initially agreed with you. The idea that life just happens somewhere is a mathematical impossibility. But then It's shadowrun. You've got magic, dragons, vampires, zombies, ghosts, trolls, elves, dwarves, and quantum entanglement communications. Mathematical impossibilities are pretty common here. Might as well embrace it.

*SOME* type of alien life? Sure. Even spacefaring things? Maybe. Rosswell Greys? Fuck off. And even then, interstellar travel makes next to no sense, IRL as well as in SR, which has no supertechnology that handwaives just how incredibly big and empty the galaxy is.

And please keep in mind life does in no way equal an anthropomorphic race who forms large organisations and tools the same way we do.

Also,

I do think there is more than enough in SR to play around with without tossing in aliens

THIS.

Second of all, quantum entanglement, like in Mass effect. Is a real thing and is the closest we managed to teleportation

It is NOT a real thing. It hasn't even been properly replicated.

planet-sized AI's need to procreate, too

Why? Seriously, why is that stated as some sort of law?

Unable to travel the distance required for a physical invasion. The aliens have long ago launched a signal that seeks to subvert matrix/resonance capable cultures.

Based on PowerPC technology/MacOS, for it's superior compatibility with xenos computers, I bet (sorry, I had to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).

[Sengir]

First off you can attach information to a mass less particle, pushing something already moving at the speed of light beyond it surely is easier then trying to do the same to something that isn't.

Well, physics say both is impossible...

Second of all, quantum entanglement, like in Mass effect. Is a real thing and is the closest we managed to teleportation

Quantum entanglement means that both parties have the same information once they measure their particle. But they have no control over what that information is, therefore no communication (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Adarael]

It is NOT a real thing. It hasn't even been properly replicated.

Well... it IS a real thing, absolutely, but hasn't been demonstrated that you can transmit information using entanglement - or even that we can manipulate entanglement in a meaningful way. But the the thing itself is definitely real.

[Sengir]

Something else to keep in mind when discussing aliens: Space is a vast and lonely place. In a scale model where the sun has a diameter of 1 m, earth would be ~1 cm across and 100 m away, while the distance to our nearest neighboring stars would already be in the ten thousands of kilometers...

If aliens were out there, they'd still only stumble upon us by dumb luck

[Daier Mune]

Why? Seriously, why is that stated as some sort of law?

are you a planet-sized AI? Would you know?

I'm just saying I could conciveably see a basically immortal super-inteligence deciding to send off copies of itself into the interstellar medium on the mathmatically small (but in the incredible scale of the galaxy, mathmatically probable) chance that another inteligent species has developed computers sophisticated enough to detect & understand it's transmission.

[Manunancy]

What do they gain from that? Cultural hegemony on an interstellar scale is pointless (and, indeed, impossible) without FTL communications... and if they have FTL comms, they probably have FTL drives, which invalidates your premise.

It maybe a way to wipe out potential competition by turning a technological civilisation's toys against itself - or to prepare the area for the day teh far slower colonisation ships move in the area. Anoter possiblity could be a machien culture using it as fast track propagation system - hijack the local organics infrastructure to your own end - once again, information is probably easier to move tha nhardware.

Or a worse (from the repcipent's side) : there's no logic beyond the attack, it's merely a fallout effect from some interstellar war fought half a galaxy away, a viral weapon that's drifting out millenias after the war that relesaed it is finsihed (and the protagonists all dead...)

[hermit]

are you a planet-sized AI? Would you know?

Are you? Unlike you, I don't claim to know.

And why should an AI based on alien technology act like the christian idea of a human being? Be fruitful and multiply?

[Daier Mune]

because it makes for an interesting plot to a science fiction game

[hermit]

because it makes for an interesting plot to a science fiction game

Given how over used it is (Seriously, how many movies, books and games use this premise? I can think of several.), I would disagree. And even if you think so, it would definitly work better with Eclipse Phase or Traveller than Shadowrun.

[KCKitsune]

OK didn't read through all the posts, but here's my take:

First off, Shadowrun was designed by the creators grabbing the "Big Book of Stereotypes" to decide what they want in SR, taking one look, and then going "Yes". So Aliens is not that much of a stretch.

Second, Psychic powers... why not use the magic system, assign a few powers, but have it that it works in space, and is NOT tied to the Mana sphere? I wrote a rule set for true Psychic powers... not the insulting crap the creators wrote in Street Magic.

Third, these guys are Aliens... they DON'T think like humans. What seems totally sane to you might be the height of insanity to Them.

[Tanegar]

I quite like the "psychics as deluded magicians" concept.

[KCKitsune]

I quite like the "psychics as deluded magicians" concept.

I despise it with a passion.

Also with Technomancers doing their thing, Psionic abilities are very real in Shadowrun. I mean let's think about it. Their powers are unexplained and their abilities work in space.

[Neraph]

I despise it with a passion.

Also with Technomancers doing their thing, Psionic abilities are very real in Shadowrun. I mean let's think about it. Their powers are unexplained and their abilities work in space.

Why? What distinguishes psionics from magic?

[KCKitsune]

Why? What distinguishes psionics from magic?

Psionics works outside of the Mana Sphere and Magic does not. Simple as that.

Let's look at it another way. With a Resonance 6 Technomancer with two levels of Amplification*, the Technomancer can transmit a wireless signal 4 kilometer with nothing more than the power of his mind. If that isn't Psionics then what is?


* == This is VERY simple to do. Most starting Technomancer will have Resonance 6, because to have less would be asinine. It also only cost 30 Karma to get the two levels of Amplification.

[All4BigGuns]

Psionics works outside of the Mana Sphere and Magic does not. Simple as that.

Let's look at it another way. With a Resonance 6 Technomancer with two levels of Amplification*, the Technomancer can transmit a wireless signal 4 kilometer with nothing more than the power of his mind. If that isn't Psionics then what is?


* == This is VERY simple to do. Most starting Technomancer will have Resonance 6, because to have less would be asinine. It also only cost 30 Karma to get the two levels of Amplification.

If you want aliens in Shadowrun, just rip off Stargate and say one of the megacorps was the one that found the gate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Sengir]

Psionics works outside of the Mana Sphere and Magic does not. Simple as that.

Sez who? In SR psionics are (and always have been) magic users who believe their powers are some kind of mental energy, but in reality they still work magic just like anybody else. A psionic in space would face the same consequences as all other Awakened.

* == This is VERY simple to do. Most starting Technomancer will have Resonance 6, because to have less would be asinine.

...or a testament to the fact that TMs are incredible BP sinks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[hermit]

Sez who? In SR psionics are (and always have been) magic users who believe their powers are some kind of mental energy, but in reality they still work magic just like anybody else. A psionic in space would face the same consequences as all other Awakened.

So say the rules he himself designed because he couldn't bear psionics not working like in Star Trek. Which, incidentally, has it's own rules system, if you desire to play Star Trek, Kitsune.

Let's look at it another way. With a Resonance 6 Technomancer with two levels of Amplification*, the Technomancer can transmit a wireless signal 4 kilometer with nothing more than the power of his mind. If that isn't Psionics then what is?

So psionics, to you, is basically the ability to send radio signals through organic processes (that are so far not explained)? Also, 4 km is literally nothing in Space. Nothing at all.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Although I've yet to see any rules printed on it (since nobody's printed Shadows of Low Orbit, to my knowledge,) presumably Signal rating goes a lot farther in space since there's going to be orders of orders of magnitude less to soak up your signal. Forget about real-time VR, though.

[ZeroPoint]

I initially agreed with you. The idea that life just happens somewhere is a mathematical impossibility. But then It's shadowrun. You've got magic, dragons, vampires, zombies, ghosts, trolls, elves, dwarves, and quantum entanglement communications. Mathematical impossibilities are pretty common here. Might as well embrace it.

Ever hear of drake's equation? not really an impossibility at all. In fact, its more of a probability.

Whether said race would be capable of FTL depends on if you believe FTL is possible at all.

Some recent findings show that making a vehicle capable of FTL may be a lot easier than initially suspected, requiring far smaller amount of energy. So just because we havn't found a way to do it, doesn't mean someone else couldn't have either.

Quantum entanglement is a real thing, and just because we havn't found a way to reliably transfer data with it, doesn't mean that its impossible. Magic and Resonance are unbelievable enough that this is a small jump of believability to me. I do however find such concept as a planetary AI launching self replicating probes as unlikely though.

On the subject of psionics, obviously magic is not psionics, and saying that psionics is actually deluded magicians, does not preclude the existence of real psionics. And Resonance, does sound a lot like it could be a precursor to psionics.

All that said, any alien race coming to earth in invasion style isn't coming here to abduct us, they're coming for our resources. Planets with breathable atmospheres, regular seasons, lots of water, and the perfect distance from the sun are hard to come by. And a race thats sufficiently advanced to have developed FTL has to be a pretty old race and is probably having a big problem with overpopulation.

Finally, does shadowrun need aliens? No. Can you put them in if you want them? Why the heck not? I think dealing with an alien invasion in a world with magic and resonance could be pretty interesting.

Interdimensional travelers might be more interesting...possibly from an alternate earth where the horrors won the last cycle.

[Neraph]

Ever hear of drake's equation? not really an impossibility at all. In fact, its more of a probability.

Drake's Equation depends on three constants that are actually arbitrarily predicted variables which may be significantly off, skewing the whole "equation" radically. It's essentially a hope and a dream that was published by a scientist.

So say the rules he himself designed because he couldn't bear psionics not working like in Star Trek.

It seems that KCKitsune is simply insulted that psionics in SR does not match their view of what psionics should be. What about werewolves? Or the Infected? Ghouls being zombies? Trolls having regeneration and only being harmed by fire and/or acid?

My point being that SR has taken popular ideas and then stated that they've always existed, but the ancient lore from the last mana tide is exaggerated or wrong. This is how SR says that loup-garou are actually werewolves of legend, or any number of other things. The same is true for psionics. There could be something out there that is actually psionics, but there is a psionic tradition and that doesn't have to be psionics as you see it - it's what the game has declared is psionics.

Also, having a system of magic that does not function in relation to mana fields is a broken system - Backround Count, Astral Hazing (by extention) and Arcane Arrestor would have no effect against it, neither would any of a number of other defenses against standard magic. No defense against a superior system = broken.

[Tanegar]

All that said, any alien race coming to earth in invasion style isn't coming here to abduct us, they're coming for our resources. Planets with breathable atmospheres, regular seasons, lots of water, and the perfect distance from the sun are hard to come by. And a race thats sufficiently advanced to have developed FTL has to be a pretty old race and is probably having a big problem with overpopulation.

Except that by the time you build a ship big enough to move a number of people large enough to have a noticeable impact on your overpopulation problem, you've built a ship big enough to be self-sustaining more or less indefinitely. Why fight somebody else for their planet when you can tour the universe instead? The same applies to resources: any ship large enough to carry a significant amount will be more expensive than the stuff it carries. This is a primary symptom of sci-fi writers having no sense of scale.

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