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Smirnov
post Dec 9 2012, 01:54 AM
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I'm reading Clutch of Dragons and Dirty Tricks now, and it seems there have been some major developments since I last read the books. Can anyone brief me on the issues or point towards the books where I can read about them.

The things that I'm lost about are:

Horizon had a fallout with technomancers
The whole Denver story (I caught the start of it, but can't figure how it went)
The Donald hurricane stuff
Sirrurg striking back at Aztlan - what is he avenging?
Kane is out of business?
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Mantis
post Dec 9 2012, 09:37 AM
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Denver had the Olympics (both Winter and Summer) and Ghostwalker is having issues controlling the place since he seems distracted. I think it is covered in Spy Games somewhat.
The bit about Surrurg is in WAR!. Basically he is pissed about off about the Azzies killing a dragon for events in the Yucatan. Also he is crazy. No really, they think he is insane.

I think the other things are covered in adventures (The horizon adventures Fist full of Credsticks, Anarchy Subsidized, Colombian Subterfuge and the Twilight Horizon) but as I haven't played any of those yet, I can't confirm that.
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Smirnov
post Dec 9 2012, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (Mantis @ Dec 9 2012, 01:37 PM) *
Denver had the Olympics (both Winter and Summer) and Ghostwalker is having issues controlling the place since he seems distracted. I think it is covered in Spy Games somewhat.

I've read as far as rift stuff with Ghostwalker disappearing. I understand that he came back?

And what I still can't get, is how new Denver treaty differs from the old one?
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Nath
post Dec 9 2012, 02:20 PM
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In The Twilight Horizon, there is a bit of background and three adventures about Horizon policy on technomancers. The corporation publicly defend technomancers' rights, while acting covertly so that a majority of countries and megacorporations keep discriminating them, and their situation doesn't improve globally. Horizon can thus look like the technomancers only ally and keeps geting a large supplies of recruits and guinea pigs. Technomancers discovered that and were pretty pissed off.

The whole Denver story? Well, despite what Spy Games says, what happened before Ghostwalker came is important. The Treaty of Denver divided the city into five sectors, controlled by the US, Sioux, Ute, Pueblo and Aztlan. US was splitted into UCAS and CAS in 2033, Ghostwalker seized control of the city, banned Aztlan, handed control of their sector to the CAS and got a new Treaty ratified in 2061, and finally the Ute nation was annexed by Pueblo in 2067.
At some point in 2072 or 2073 (the book doesn't give a date), the Salish-Shidhe remarked as the Ute nation "dissolved", it made the whole treaty of Denver "null and void" (which means that the Salish-Shidhe diplomats knew nuts about international law, because nations never "dissolve" ; if the Treaty had such strong provision against the widthdrawal of any country, the eviction of Aztlan in 2061 would have given a much stronger case ; possibly the Denver Treaty included provisions to make the treaty null and void if the US were to invade one of the NAN not worded carefully enough because the SAIM negotiators at the time couldn't imagine one of the NAN would annex another).
So, the Salish-Shidhe were asking for a round of negotiations and a new Treaty of Denver. This was promptly followed by a surge in espionage activities as each of the North American governments wants to know the whereabouts of the official and unofficial negotiators in town. An international conference was to meet in DEnver in March 2073, which is when Ghostwalker returned.
In the meantime, Ghostwalker was more interested by the Four Artifacts (those from the Dawn of the Artifacts serie) and manipulated a bunch of power players to gather them in Washington. He performed a ritual that closed the Watergate Rift, closed the door for shedim spirit, killed Aina, and a few month later came back with a merger of her deceased mate and reunited spirit of Denver Zebulon. If you read The Clutch of Dragons, you know is back, with Zebulon somewhat acting as his Queen. He was right in time to attend the conference and try to kill the Aztlan delegation.

Since his Awakening, Sirrurg has hunted people involved in the "Downcycle Hunt" (killing dragons during their sleep). But he also established the nation of Amazonia with Hualpa (and the mythical third great dragon), which was the first step toward reigniting the millennia-old war in America over the use of Blood Magic (which at some point during the Fourth Age, involved dragons fighting dragons, and went quite nasty). So maybe the execution and dissection of Dzitbalchen pushed Sirrurg fury one step further, but I think he has been eager to go at war with Aztlan for a long time, and knew it was just a matter of time for Hualpa to agree with him.
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Lionhearted
post Dec 9 2012, 02:51 PM
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That's a lot of the what's of what happened, you don't happen to know something about the why aswell?

QUOTE (Nath @ Dec 9 2012, 03:20 PM) *
Ghostwalker was more interested by the Four Artifacts (those from the Dawn of the Artifacts serie) and manipulated a bunch of power players to gather them in Washington. He performed a ritual that closed the Watergate Rift, closed the door for shedim spirit, killed Aina, and a few month later came back with a merger of her deceased mate and reunited spirit of Denver Zebulon. If you read The Clutch of Dragons, you know is back, with Zebulon somewhat acting as his Queen. He was right in time to attend the conference and try to kill the Aztlan delegation.

Especially those parts. Was his brother involved in why he closed the rift? Why did he kill her?
Im not sure if I understand the whole spirit deal. GWs dead mate? The spirit of the city?
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Nath
post Dec 9 2012, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Smirnov @ Dec 9 2012, 02:41 PM) *
And what I still can't get, is how new Denver treaty differs from the old one?
The first Treaty of Denver in 2018 had five countries (US, Sioux, Pueblo, Ute and Aztlan) sharing authority over Denver. The second Treaty of Denver in 2061 recognized Ghostwalker supreme authority, and left five countries (UCAS, CAS, Sioux, Pueblo and Ute) to administer their sectors.
Now, the Salish-Shidhe are not asking for a sector, but only for a representative and voting rights on Denver council. The Algonkin-Manitou subsequently asked for the same privilege, but with their government deep into Aztechnology pocket, everyone saw the real intent behind. The countries already represented in Denver council appear to seize the opportunity mostly to haggle on tax levels and Denver administration funding. As usual, it's likely a lot of countries are putting things on the table that have nothing to do with the subject at hand (like, UCAS or Salish-Shidhe could make concessions on Seattle in exchange for something else in Denver).
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Smirnov
post Dec 9 2012, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (Nath @ Dec 9 2012, 06:20 PM) *
In the meantime, Ghostwalker was more interested by the Four Artifacts (those from the Dawn of the Artifacts serie) and manipulated a bunch of power players to gather them in Washington. He performed a ritual that closed the Watergate Rift, closed the door for shedim spirit, killed Aina, and a few month later came back with a merger of her deceased mate and reunited spirit of Denver Zebulon. If you read The Clutch of Dragons, you know is back, with Zebulon somewhat acting as his Queen. He was right in time to attend the conference and try to kill the Aztlan delegation.

Wait... Aina's mate? Like the horror one? And seconding Lionhearted on whys.

Thanks for clarification about Horizon and Sirrurg. Knew about his vendetta, but thought maybe there was something new.
So, new Treaty pretty much adds new associate member(s) and has some revaluation with no real consequences to the world at large?
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Nath
post Dec 9 2012, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE (Smirnov @ Dec 9 2012, 05:08 PM) *
Wait... Aina's mate? Like the horror one? And seconding Lionhearted on whys.
Aina, as the president of the Draco Foundation, brought the Shantaya Compass to the Watergate meeting. The ritual performed by Ghostwalker to close to the Rift resulted in a large explosion, killing Aina. That wasn't, as far as we know, intentional from Ghostwalker (but there could also be an additional layer of fun if we were to learn one of the other person present recovered faster from the explosion, found Aina incapacited and took the opportunity to kill her).

QUOTE (Smirnov @ Dec 9 2012, 05:08 PM) *
So, new Treaty pretty much adds new associate member(s) and has some revaluation with no real consequences to the world at large?
No, in March 2074, Ghostwalker return and attempt to kill the Aztlan delegation disrupted the international summit. The previous treaty expired without a new one getting anywhere close to being written down or ratified.
QUOTE
The Clutch of Dragons, page 24
The Second Treaty of Denver expired on July 1, 2074. So now everything is in a state of uncertainty, with everyone running on inertia. The borders stay the same; the STC remains; the reservations remain; Seattle stands. However, there is no legal consequence to engaging in any number of actions that, before July, could have served as casus belli.
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Wakshaani
post Dec 9 2012, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (Smirnov @ Dec 8 2012, 07:54 PM) *
I'm reading Clutch of Dragons and Dirty Tricks now, and it seems there have been some major developments since I last read the books. Can anyone brief me on the issues or point towards the books where I can read about them.

The things that I'm lost about are:

Horizon had a fallout with technomancers
The whole Denver story (I caught the start of it, but can't figure how it went)
The Donald hurricane stuff
Sirrurg striking back at Aztlan - what is he avenging?
Kane is out of business?


Looks like most of this has been covered, so I'll snag the two that haven't.

Hurricane Donald was only mentioned in Dirty Tricks... other books were released before it hit, nothing's been released since. This year was a rough onw for hurricanes, with Mississippi getting hit by one and a tropical storm (A Hurricane that didn't have full power when it hit), while Donald did it's thing in the Gulf before hitting Aztlan's eastern coast and bringing the Black Rain.

Kane isn't out of business, but the bad storms did some damage to his operations. Sunk a few boats, smashed up a dock or three, nothing horrible, but enough to give him a few headaches. Kane's still Kane. He'll probably try something outrageous to get people talking about him again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Nath
post Dec 9 2012, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Nath @ Dec 9 2012, 03:20 PM) *
In the meantime, Ghostwalker was more interested by the Four Artifacts (those from the Dawn of the Artifacts serie) and manipulated a bunch of power players to gather them in Washington. He performed a ritual that closed the Watergate Rift, closed the door for shedim spirit, killed Aina, and a few month later came back with a merger of her deceased mate and reunited spirit of Denver Zebulon.
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Dec 9 2012, 03:51 PM) *
Was his brother involved in why he closed the rift? Why did he kill her?
Im not sure if I understand the whole spirit deal. GWs dead mate? The spirit of the city?
QUOTE (Smirnov @ Dec 9 2012, 05:08 PM) *
Wait... Aina's mate? Like the horror one? And seconding Lionhearted on whys.
Sorry, some correction is due here. It should have read "his mate", not "her."That is, Ghoswalker brought back from the dead the spirit of a deceased female dragon.

The divided spirit of Denver is plot that has have been going on since the original Denver boxed sourcebook. A free great-form city spirit (old edition, that would be a Spirit of Man in SR4) has established itself in Denver, and become the de-facto "spirit of the city". In 2017, an Amerindian shaman and a US contractor mage both attempted to sumon the spirit with its True Name at the exact same time. It resulted in the spirit breaking in two parts. And as the Treaty of Denver further divided the city, so did the spirit.
Since it's all very symbolic, with subtle influence on the astral plane and the people psyche, it's not clear if Ghostwalker needed to reunify the city the way he did to reunify the spirit, or if he needed to reunify the spirit to complete the reunification of the city.

As for the reasons behind these, let's recap:
- When Dunkelzahn died in 2057 and powered the Dragonheart, it opened the Rift where he was standing (that is, in front of the Watergate Complex).
- The astral form of Ghostwalker exited from the Rift in 2060. A few hours later, Ghostwalker physical form was flying over Denver. Around the same time, shedim spirits started showing up.
- Ghostwalker closed the Rift, brought back the spirit of a dead dragon and reunited the spirit of Denver. After that shedim spirits could also no longer enter our world (but those who are already there are trapped in).
Of all these things, there is no clue on which were intentional from either Dunkelzahn or Ghostwalker and which weren't. Possibly, Dunkelzahn willingly opened the way for his brother to return, Ghostwalker knew he had to close the Rift to end the shedim invasion, but postponed it until he could gather the Artifacts and bring is mate back as well, before shutting the Rift down for good.
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Lionhearted
post Dec 9 2012, 06:32 PM
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What are the Shedim anyway? are they connected to the horrors in any way?
I seem to recall powering the dragon heart was part in a plot to prevent the scourge from arriving early.
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Smirnov
post Dec 10 2012, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Dec 9 2012, 08:57 PM) *
Hurricane Donald was only mentioned in Dirty Tricks... other books were released before it hit, nothing's been released since. This year was a rough onw for hurricanes, with Mississippi getting hit by one and a tropical storm (A Hurricane that didn't have full power when it hit), while Donald did it's thing in the Gulf before hitting Aztlan's eastern coast and bringing the Black Rain.

So it's a latest development, thanks!

QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Dec 9 2012, 08:57 PM) *
Kane isn't out of business, but the bad storms did some damage to his operations. Sunk a few boats, smashed up a dock or three, nothing horrible, but enough to give him a few headaches. Kane's still Kane. He'll probably try something outrageous to get people talking about him again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Like staging a daring strike against IncaCo? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE (Nath @ Dec 9 2012, 09:52 PM) *
Sorry, some correction is due here. It should have read "his mate", not "her."That is, Ghoswalker brought back from the dead the spirit of a deceased female dragon.

That's a relief! For once second I though that Ghostwalker allied himself with horror(s), and I swear I got a grey hair or two.

QUOTE (Nath @ Dec 9 2012, 09:52 PM) *
The divided spirit of Denver is plot that has have been going on since the original Denver boxed sourcebook. A free great-form city spirit (old edition, that would be a Spirit of Man in SR4) has established itself in Denver, and become the de-facto "spirit of the city". In 2017, an Amerindian shaman and a US contractor mage both attempted to sumon the spirit with its True Name at the exact same time. It resulted in the spirit breaking in two parts. And as the Treaty of Denver further divided the city, so did the spirit.
Since it's all very symbolic, with subtle influence on the astral plane and the people psyche, it's not clear if Ghostwalker needed to reunify the city the way he did to reunify the spirit, or if he needed to reunify the spirit to complete the reunification of the city.

As for the reasons behind these, let's recap:
- When Dunkelzahn died in 2057 and powered the Dragonheart, it opened the Rift where he was standing (that is, in front of the Watergate Complex).
- The astral form of Ghostwalker exited from the Rift in 2060. A few hours later, Ghostwalker physical form was flying over Denver. Around the same time, shedim spirits started showing up.
- Ghostwalker closed the Rift, brought back the spirit of a dead dragon and reunited the spirit of Denver. After that shedim spirits could also no longer enter our world (but those who are already there are trapped in).
Of all these things, there is no clue on which were intentional from either Dunkelzahn or Ghostwalker and which weren't. Possibly, Dunkelzahn willingly opened the way for his brother to return, Ghostwalker knew he had to close the Rift to end the shedim invasion, but postponed it until he could gather the Artifacts and bring is mate back as well, before shutting the Rift down for good.

Was familiar with the spitir of Denver story, and i really feel good that they are reunited with Ghostwalker.
The shedim part gives some reason to the whole Rift story. Actually, it's pretty big. No more shedim threat!

QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Dec 9 2012, 10:32 PM) *
What are the Shedim anyway? are they connected to the horrors in any way?
I seem to recall powering the dragon heart was part in a plot to prevent the scourge from arriving early.

They are not related, but similar. As they are similar to insects - these are spirits from deep astral.
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SpellBinder
post Dec 10 2012, 08:31 PM
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Any chance this dragon spirit Ghostwalker brought back is Yuichotol?
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Smirnov
post Dec 10 2012, 08:39 PM
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That's what/who she is or what's left of her. After her death Icewing made her a spirit and she became the spirit of Denver, which Ghostwalker apparently reconstructed in the Rift.
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Lionhearted
post Dec 10 2012, 08:51 PM
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So if I got this straight... It's a merged spirit of a dead dragon and a divided free spirit that embodiment the city itself.
So the city rules the city... that makes an eerie amount of sense.
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SpellBinder
post Dec 10 2012, 08:52 PM
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I thought that the Spirit Of Denver had a different name, Zebulon. Something different than Yuichotol in all of this.
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Smirnov
post Dec 10 2012, 08:56 PM
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Well, Icewing is Ghostwaler this cycle, so no reason for Yuichotol not to be called Zebulon. The name was probably given by humans in this cycle.
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SpellBinder
post Dec 10 2012, 09:01 PM
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Could make some sense if they're one in the same, but then some of the details of the Denver mission "A Very Bad Day" don't make as much sense. At least to me, anyway.
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Smirnov
post Dec 10 2012, 09:01 PM
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Haven't read it, what the oddities there?
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Nath
post Dec 10 2012, 09:19 PM
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It is very likely the Ghostwalker's mate is Yuichotol. She was so far the only known mate of Icewing/Ghostwalker, and Earthdawn era sources do mentions her spirit survived her killing by the Therans.

Game Information in The Clutch of Dragons seems to suggest the spirit of Denver and the spirit of Yuichotol were only merged when Ghostwalker performed the ritual at the Rift. Before that, they would have been two separate spirits.

On the origin of Zebulon name, Denver Gamemaster book says the city spirit was "known to those aware of its presence as Zebulon" in the 2010s or 2020s. In the same book, the spirit is said to have settled in the Denver area during the gold rush in the 1850s. Interestingly enough, said gold rush was known at the time as "Pike's Peak Gold Rush". Pike's Peak (now Pikes Peak), the highest mountain in the Front Range, has been named around that time after explorer Zebulon Pike (1779-1813). I doubt the ghost of General Pike went on to become a free great spirit in forty years, so I guess the link is rather symbolic.
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SpellBinder
post Dec 10 2012, 09:31 PM
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The better part of the mission is that the runners go through an alchera into a pueblo metaplane to find a spirit named Yuichotol, described as a water serpent (I googled her some time ago to learn a bit about her relationship with Ghostwalker during the 4th age, yes, they were mates from what I found). What they ultimately are able to bring back is the last intact part of Yuichotol's vessel (a large crystal dragon's skull) created by Ghostwalker, her spirit having "been gone a long time from here." (told to the team by a native spirit).

The way things are put is that it sounds like Yuichotol left that metaplane long before the events that resulted in Zebulon first being split in two in the material, and wouldn't have any ties to the material plane. The mission also alludes to time not passing any different while the team is in the metaplane vs. Denver. The overall impression I got was that Yuichotol was far removed from the material before the 6th age, before the gold rush and all that lead to the founding of Denver.

Now it's also possible that Frosty is wrong in her assessment that the woman seen with Ghostwalker is Zebulon. It wouldn't be the first time I've found where a cannon character has made a mistake about something that the inside mission details say differently.

And I do think it'd be possible that Zebulon Pike could've become a free spirit after his death. It wouldn't be the only incident of something magically happening during the mana down cycle.
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Smirnov
post Dec 10 2012, 09:34 PM
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I thought Yuichotol was western dragon.. strange for it the spirit to be a serpent.
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SpellBinder
post Dec 10 2012, 09:39 PM
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Copied right from the mission: "He describes Yuichotol as a large water serpent with silver and blue scales and large horns of crystal. She’s feisty, but loves verbal banter." He being the Mr. Johnson who pays the team for the job, and someone who's worked for Ghostwalker for years.

But then, the mission author could've made a mistake here, too. Wouldn't be the first one I've found regarding the collection of Denver missions.
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Smirnov
post Dec 10 2012, 09:41 PM
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Or the image of Yuichotol spirit can have nothing in common with Yuichotol dragon form
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Lionhearted
post Dec 10 2012, 09:46 PM
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Astral forms doesn't necessarily match their physical counterparts, even if she was a western in life, she might still appear as a serpent in spiritform.

On the other hand traditionally serpents represent either cunning and intelligence or deceit and treachery.
Symbolism from the author, the spirit or the true nature of the spirit? I cannot say, might aswell be a fluke.
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