[X] My Assistant

[All4BigGuns]

Ah, yes. That's something else for the wish list. Explaining exactly how hacking works. What programs do what, how they are used, and a breakdown of the methods to go about breaking into a computer and getting what you need in non-vague terms.

That could be good, though that last part I'd personally save until the new edition's Matrix book. It'll give a good reason to pick it up.

[Tashiro]

Actually, bringing back smart frames might be nice too - 'sprites' for the non-Technomancer.

[binarywraith]

That's progress. Look at the world now - wireless. RFIDs everywhere. Augmented Reality exists in the now. I was just writing an essay on Science Fiction, and one of the things I praised Shadowrun with is that they're keeping up with modern technology, and thus remaining relevant as a science fiction genre. If they ignored the wireless world, AR, and everything that comes with it, Shadowrun would descend into irrelevancy -- much like Cyberpunk did. Cyberpunk tried to stick to its roots, and in doing so, became less and less realistic, and showed its age more and more.

I want Shadowrun to take modern advances in technology and culture into account, and keep updating to match the shift in what's relevant now. This means that the world is wireless, this means that everyone's going to have a full-fledged computer on hand. This means that scanners and ID tags are going to be everywhere, on everything. That's just how the world evolved, and Shadowrun should mirror this if it wants to make sense.

Otherwise, you're going to have things like 'we're able to do this NOW, why can't we do this in SR?' -- and the excuse 'because we can't' isn't going to cut it.

That's the thing. Wireless had -been done- in SR, and much like we've discovered in the real world, was abandoned for serious Maxtrix use and limited to day to day applications like pocket secs and phones because it simply didn't have the bandwidth to serve the matrix and because of the massively stupid security issues it posed.

Between that and the RFID stuff, it essentially makes the off-the-grid shadowrunner lifestyle impossible because tracking down anyone is as easy as sticking a tag on them that wardrives and records what networks it wanders through.

But the real point is that the SR timeline diverged from ours somewhere in the 80's, and their 1990's and 2000's were a lot different than ours. There's no reason to mirror what happened in the real world, and trying to do so really hurts the setting. Hell, if we were on the SR timeline, there would have been two nuclear wars by now (Israel v Libya and DPRK v Japan), VITAS would have killed a quarter of the world population, and we'd have a manned mission on Mars.

[GM Lich]

one thing I know this may sound dangerous similar to the other game, is reward approximation. How much money should the PCs take home from a run according to the challenge. One of the more intimidating aspects of GMing is how much reward should you actually give to them. One of the key things I like about shadowrun compared to other RPGs is the freeformness of it. The other is EDGE is really powerful in Shadowrun and imo needs to be toned down a little.I think most of the rest has already been said or has been promised. The only thing I'm slightly worried about is simplified character development. I'm hoping they just use packets like in Runner's Toolkit but who knows what they will actually end up doing. I'm nervous and excited to see what they will do.


Slightly Offtopic: Does Topps own Catalyst or are they running the show now?

[Lionhearted]

I would like some more fleshed out guidelines on how to award cash and karma. Especially as you don't really have a inherent intrinsic understanding for the value of nuyen.

[Stahlseele]

Topps owns the SR IP as a whole.
CGL has a license to use the SR IP for the Pen and Paper RPG.
Nobody owns anything.

[Sengir]

and a breakdown of the methods to go about breaking into a computer and getting what you need in non-vague terms.

Yep, that would be kinda nice to have. And a definite description of how AR and VR users interact...strictly by RAW it's not even clear whether they have personas...

[Bigity]

That's progress. Look at the world now - wireless. RFIDs everywhere. Augmented Reality exists in the now. I was just writing an essay on Science Fiction, and one of the things I praised Shadowrun with is that they're keeping up with modern technology, and thus remaining relevant as a science fiction genre. If they ignored the wireless world, AR, and everything that comes with it, Shadowrun would descend into irrelevancy -- much like Cyberpunk did. Cyberpunk tried to stick to its roots, and in doing so, became less and less realistic, and showed its age more and more.

I want Shadowrun to take modern advances in technology and culture into account, and keep updating to match the shift in what's relevant now. This means that the world is wireless, this means that everyone's going to have a full-fledged computer on hand. This means that scanners and ID tags are going to be everywhere, on everything. That's just how the world evolved, and Shadowrun should mirror this if it wants to make sense.

Otherwise, you're going to have things like 'we're able to do this NOW, why can't we do this in SR?' -- and the excuse 'because we can't' isn't going to cut it.

See, I disagree here. SR never looked like the world did at any point. It was based of a crazy assed notion that Japan was going to take over the world and 80s trends would remain in place. I don't want a game that mirrors real life. I've never played a RPG and thought, gee, I can mind control people and blow up their brains with mind-waves, why can't I do that in real life? I didn't play SR back in the 80s and 90s because I thought it was realistic. I doubt anyone did, ever.

Commonplace wireless and a hyper-connected world removes alot of the charm of the setting, IMO. Mages and shamans being identical: same thing. Riggers/hackers. No 'decks. Technology that is better than cyber and doesn't require cutting out a piece of your flesh and soul. And so on.

Now, I full realize there is room enough for cyberpunk-ish SR, and more post-cyberpunk, but I'm not buying post-cyberpunk books. Maybe this edition is feeding off some of the SR2050 book sales? I dunno. Multiple realities would be great, if they can support both concepts. With board games, TCGs, etc, all planned, maybe they have the staff to do it.

[Tashiro]

See, I disagree here. SR never looked like the world did at any point. It was based of a crazy assed notion that Japan was going to take over the world and 80s trends would remain in place. I don't want a game that mirrors real life. I've never played a RPG and thought, gee, I can mind control people and blow up their brains with mind-waves, why can't I do that in real life? I didn't play SR back in the 80s and 90s because I thought it was realistic. I doubt anyone did, ever.

Not quite what I meant. Good science fiction uses the setting as a framework to reflect aspects of the modern world and raise questions, and near future science fiction will usually extrapolate from where we are to where they think we may go. Shadowrun, IMHO, does this very well, which is why it is one of my favourite roleplaying games (just recently, I had to sell almost all my roleplaying games -- I owned every single nWoD book out there, and sold that off, but I kept all my Shadowrun books, because I loved SR4 more).

And for some reason, your example worked backwards. It isn't 'I can do this in a game, why can't I do this real life?' - it's 'if our world is moving towards allowing for THIS, why can't I do this in Shadowrun?' An amusing thought experiment I had was, 'if Earth ever encountered actual alien races, how many science fiction movies, books, and games would add alien races as a de-facto part of Earth's life?'. Anyway, I'm digressing.

For science fiction to remain relevant, it needs to be able to be relatable to modern times. We're living in a near wireless world now, which has caused a huge shift in our culture. SR4 reflected this, and I think it did it very well, it tapped neatly into the wireless vein and how it alters the world. I don't want a Shadowrun world which remains more or less stagnant as we move ahead. I want a setting which will evolve and shift as we evolve and shift. I'd feel much the same way about an RPG that started 'in the 80s' to give us an 80s feel, but never, ever moved into the 90s or the turn of the century. Sure, the 80s was fun, but the world moves forward for the characters, and they'll need to move forward with it.

Seriously, Shadowrun's timeline started in the 2050s, and has moved up to the 2070s. In 20 years, technology must have moved forward by serious leaps and bounds - I want to see that reflected. If someone doesn't like the wireless world, they just run the game in the 2050s and keep it there. That's an entire decade you can use.

Commonplace wireless and a hyper-connected world removes alot of the charm of the setting, IMO. Mages and shamans being identical: same thing. Riggers/hackers. No 'decks. Technology that is better than cyber and doesn't require cutting out a piece of your flesh and soul. And so on.

I fear we'll need to disagree on this. To me, this makes the game seem more alive. It's one thing I hate about 'traditional' fantasy settings -- you have cultures sitting around for hundreds or thousands of years, but not shifting at all from where they started. I'm sorry, that doesn't happen. And in a high-tech setting, such as Shadowrun, evolution should be lightning fast, as new innovations and technologies are created, and Shadowrun's really good for that. If I remember correctly, the first Virtual Realities book (SR1) had wireless cyberdecks, and by SR2, 'memory' for your cyberdeck went from a limited amount to infinite (since everything was stored on the Matrix). As Shadowrun moved forward, you could see technology in the setting moving forward as well, reflecting our innovations and advancements.

Now, as for hermetics / shamans / everything else, I do agree that I was disappointed when the line got blurred, simply because I believe magic is about culture and belief. That being said, I'm fully supportive of a single ruleset to cover all the different aspects (summoning/binding, spirit mentor/totem, etc), what I want is something to cause each one to stand out individually ... something akin to what they dropped into martial arts -- you take tradition X, you get these specific perks that nobody else will get. (The Path of the Wheel is a very, very good example in fact, from Tir N'an Og).

Riggers and Hackers? The only thing I see there is 'skill set'. I'm thinking about how drones are operated in today's world, and the only thing that stands out is that you need to be damn good at flight simulators, but really, once you've got that down pat (which I believe would be your driving skills in Shadowrun), blending the line between hacker and rigger makes sense. Since you need to be able to take over any drone in sight, hacking skills become essential to the rigger for breaking into a vehicle / drone / sentry, taking it over, and piloting it. And if a hacker specializes in hostile takeover of drones and such (which I've seen done in my games), then yeah, more power to them. I'd say they're different archetypes, mostly because of where they want to focus. Most hackers do infiltration and data mining or sabotage, while riggers don't stuff their commlinks full of attack and stealth programs unless they're doing hostile rigging -- if they aren't, they save it for command routines to handle aspects of their vehicles while they command them remotely.

The commlink I think is a natural evolution of the cyberdeck. We have laptops and minicomputers which blow away anything we had 15 years ago, why can't Shadowrun have evolved their technology to be 'personal' in 20 years? In SR3, I was annoyed when I couldn't do basic hacking with a wrist computer, simply because I knew for a fact that people were hacking from laptops -- and that was back in 2001. I saw a parallel between the 'wrist computer' in Shadowrun versus the 'deck, and the laptop versus the PC. I'm actually glad that SR4 has accepted that your PC is now something worn all the time.

Now, I full realize there is room enough for cyberpunk-ish SR, and more post-cyberpunk, but I'm not buying post-cyberpunk books. Maybe this edition is feeding off some of the SR2050 book sales? I dunno. Multiple realities would be great, if they can support both concepts. With board games, TCGs, etc, all planned, maybe they have the staff to do it.

The thing is, the timeline in the Shadowrun universe is moving forward. It makes no sense for civilization to suddenly grind to a halt. I'm enjoying the Shadowrun universe because it is alive and evolving, and will allow me to look at things such as transhumanism, post-cyberpunk, and everything that comes from those. To me, Shadowrun is a science fiction genre - cyberpunk played a part in it, but not the only part.

Personally, I want to watch magic evolve, I want to see technology evolve, and I want to see the eventual melding of the two. Thaumatechnology is a big interest of mine, and SR4 really started to dip into that field, which drew me in a lot more. I find Technomancers to be a part of the deal -- technology is the 'new tradition' of the world, and because humanity in the setting sees a 'divide' between magic and technology, those people who 'awaken' have a different filter. That's my theory at least, so we'll see, but I found technomancy to be a refreshing shift in Shadowrun, and it is one of the best examples for me as to why Shadowrun is a great setting -- it doesn't sit on its laurels, and is constantly pushing forward with new ideas.

Heh. I talked myself from being only marginally interested in SR5 to VERY interested in SR5. I'm looking forward to seeing them push the envelope more!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Actually, bringing back smart frames might be nice too - 'sprites' for the non-Technomancer.

Agents are essentially Smart Frames. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tashiro]

Agents are essentially Smart Frames. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ah, cool. I missed that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[All4BigGuns]

Really, there did start to be some disconnect when modern computer technology started to catch up (and surpass in some areas) the "future" technology of SR.

[Tashiro]

Really, there did start to be some disconnect when modern computer technology started to catch up (and surpass in some areas) the "future" technology of SR.

Exactly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bigity]

Not quite what I meant. Good science fiction uses the setting as a framework to reflect aspects of the modern world and raise questions, and near future science fiction will usually extrapolate from where we are to where they think we may go. Shadowrun, IMHO, does this very well, which is why it is one of my favourite roleplaying games (just recently, I had to sell almost all my roleplaying games -- I owned every single nWoD book out there, and sold that off, but I kept all my Shadowrun books, because I loved SR4 more).

And for some reason, your example worked backwards. It isn't 'I can do this in a game, why can't I do this real life?' - it's 'if our world is moving towards allowing for THIS, why can't I do this in Shadowrun?' An amusing thought experiment I had was, 'if Earth ever encountered actual alien races, how many science fiction movies, books, and games would add alien races as a de-facto part of Earth's life?'. Anyway, I'm digressing.

For science fiction to remain relevant, it needs to be able to be relatable to modern times. We're living in a near wireless world now, which has caused a huge shift in our culture. SR4 reflected this, and I think it did it very well, it tapped neatly into the wireless vein and how it alters the world. I don't want a Shadowrun world which remains more or less stagnant as we move ahead. I want a setting which will evolve and shift as we evolve and shift. I'd feel much the same way about an RPG that started 'in the 80s' to give us an 80s feel, but never, ever moved into the 90s or the turn of the century. Sure, the 80s was fun, but the world moves forward for the characters, and they'll need to move forward with it.

Seriously, Shadowrun's timeline started in the 2050s, and has moved up to the 2070s. In 20 years, technology must have moved forward by serious leaps and bounds - I want to see that reflected. If someone doesn't like the wireless world, they just run the game in the 2050s and keep it there. That's an entire decade you can use.



I fear we'll need to disagree on this. To me, this makes the game seem more alive. It's one thing I hate about 'traditional' fantasy settings -- you have cultures sitting around for hundreds or thousands of years, but not shifting at all from where they started. I'm sorry, that doesn't happen. And in a high-tech setting, such as Shadowrun, evolution should be lightning fast, as new innovations and technologies are created, and Shadowrun's really good for that. If I remember correctly, the first Virtual Realities book (SR1) had wireless cyberdecks, and by SR2, 'memory' for your cyberdeck went from a limited amount to infinite (since everything was stored on the Matrix). As Shadowrun moved forward, you could see technology in the setting moving forward as well, reflecting our innovations and advancements.

Now, as for hermetics / shamans / everything else, I do agree that I was disappointed when the line got blurred, simply because I believe magic is about culture and belief. That being said, I'm fully supportive of a single ruleset to cover all the different aspects (summoning/binding, spirit mentor/totem, etc), what I want is something to cause each one to stand out individually ... something akin to what they dropped into martial arts -- you take tradition X, you get these specific perks that nobody else will get. (The Path of the Wheel is a very, very good example in fact, from Tir N'an Og).

Riggers and Hackers? The only thing I see there is 'skill set'. I'm thinking about how drones are operated in today's world, and the only thing that stands out is that you need to be damn good at flight simulators, but really, once you've got that down pat (which I believe would be your driving skills in Shadowrun), blending the line between hacker and rigger makes sense. Since you need to be able to take over any drone in sight, hacking skills become essential to the rigger for breaking into a vehicle / drone / sentry, taking it over, and piloting it. And if a hacker specializes in hostile takeover of drones and such (which I've seen done in my games), then yeah, more power to them. I'd say they're different archetypes, mostly because of where they want to focus. Most hackers do infiltration and data mining or sabotage, while riggers don't stuff their commlinks full of attack and stealth programs unless they're doing hostile rigging -- if they aren't, they save it for command routines to handle aspects of their vehicles while they command them remotely.

The commlink I think is a natural evolution of the cyberdeck. We have laptops and minicomputers which blow away anything we had 15 years ago, why can't Shadowrun have evolved their technology to be 'personal' in 20 years? In SR3, I was annoyed when I couldn't do basic hacking with a wrist computer, simply because I knew for a fact that people were hacking from laptops -- and that was back in 2001. I saw a parallel between the 'wrist computer' in Shadowrun versus the 'deck, and the laptop versus the PC. I'm actually glad that SR4 has accepted that your PC is now something worn all the time.



The thing is, the timeline in the Shadowrun universe is moving forward. It makes no sense for civilization to suddenly grind to a halt. I'm enjoying the Shadowrun universe because it is alive and evolving, and will allow me to look at things such as transhumanism, post-cyberpunk, and everything that comes from those. To me, Shadowrun is a science fiction genre - cyberpunk played a part in it, but not the only part.

Personally, I want to watch magic evolve, I want to see technology evolve, and I want to see the eventual melding of the two. Thaumatechnology is a big interest of mine, and SR4 really started to dip into that field, which drew me in a lot more. I find Technomancers to be a part of the deal -- technology is the 'new tradition' of the world, and because humanity in the setting sees a 'divide' between magic and technology, those people who 'awaken' have a different filter. That's my theory at least, so we'll see, but I found technomancy to be a refreshing shift in Shadowrun, and it is one of the best examples for me as to why Shadowrun is a great setting -- it doesn't sit on its laurels, and is constantly pushing forward with new ideas.

Heh. I talked myself from being only marginally interested in SR5 to VERY interested in SR5. I'm looking forward to seeing them push the envelope more!

Don't get me wrong, adjusting the timeframe is fine. 'Jumping' in 20 years and basically replacing HUGE parts of it, just 'cause is what bothers me. Wireless was already being introduced in SR3, and should have slowly come along, especially given how insecure it is in SR4. Why the hell would anyone, much less a corp with billions to spend on security, put anything out there on a SR4 node?

Aside from that, jacking in was just cooler. Buying an off the shelf tablet and being at the highest level of hacking hardware possible is lame. Make it personal again, where you write your own code and make your own stuff. I don't care what year it is in-game. That is just better for the setting.

[Tashiro]

Don't get me wrong, adjusting the timeframe is fine. 'Jumping' in 20 years and basically replacing HUGE parts of it, just 'cause is what bothers me. Wireless was already being introduced in SR3, and should have slowly come along, especially given how insecure it is in SR4. Why the hell would anyone, much less a corp with billions to spend on security, put anything out there on a SR4 node?

I don't think they jumped quite that far ahead. SR3 went as far as the mid 2060s, but if you compare it to modern times, our technology made the jump in a similar time frame. (I just have to look at how quickly I went to 'use a PC' to 'our entire game group uses laptops'. I went from wired routers to wireless. And now I do some of my gaming using just my smartphone. That's all been in the last five years or so.)

As for why anyone (including a corp) do this? Well, again, take a look at the real world. A lot of people use smartphones and wireless routers and don't have that much security on them. Just last week I saw a member of Anonymous hack WBC's web site casually while on a radio program - just as a matter of course. I was thinking about this actually earlier today - about corporate security in Shadowrun, and comparing it to corporate security in real life.

Any system is theoretically breachable from the outside. Considering you need to advertise (web pages and the like), your presence on the web is a vulnerability right there. If anyone needs to send information out -- and everyone needs to send information in this age -- that becomes another vulnerability. Even in a 'sealed' system, where your presence is online only when you send off or take in information (visit a web page, send an e-mail, conference call, or what-have-you), those are open for exploits. In Shadowrun, this is a bigger thing than what we have now, but it makes sense. Every employee has a commlink connecting them to the corporation, the corporation's got information going in and out nearly constantly, then there's their VR and AR presence. They're probably paying a small fortune in security IC however, which helps.

Aside from that, jacking in was just cooler. Buying an off the shelf tablet and being at the highest level of hacking hardware possible is lame. Make it personal again, where you write your own code and make your own stuff. I don't care what year it is in-game. That is just better for the setting.

It might be cooler, but it was impractical and unrealistic after a certain point. You'd want your employees mobile and active, not zoning out each time they want to do something. Being tethered limits options. Nothing stops a programmer from making their own programs though - Unwired gave a lot for that. Personalizing programs is cool, I'll admit. But... err, why shouldn't a person be able to buy a SOTA computer and with the right programs be awesome? Not everyone builds a computer from parts in their bedroom.

[Bigity]

And an idiot with a smartphone without a corresponding security policy from his company does not represent the draconian measures you'd find for a mega. Ok, Joe's Pizza Shop, you'd expect lolsecurity measures. Ares? No.

As for being tethered, corps are routinely described as building arcologies to control every aspect of an employee's life. You think they give half a shit that Joe Wageslave can't take their work to the competing mall?

Given how easy hacking is in SR4, there is no way anyone in-game would put anything worthwhile on a node that anyone else knows about. That's not cool, nor realistic, and it affects the game.

[Halinn]

I wouldn't expect Sony's customer databases with passwords and stuff being accessible either, but that was hacked.

[Tashiro]

As for being tethered, corps are routinely described as building arcologies to control every aspect of an employee's life. You think they give half a shit that Joe Wageslave can't take their work to the competing mall?

From what I can tell, that would have been before SR4. I saw little to convince me that things were the same in 4th edition. With the wireless world, corporations can have their employees working any time, from any place - and in fact it would give the corporation a keener insight into their employee's activities and spending habits.

Given how easy hacking is in SR4, there is no way anyone in-game would put anything worthwhile on a node that anyone else knows about. That's not cool, nor realistic, and it affects the game.

Hacking is only as easy as the game master lets it be. Drop in the appropriate IC and counter-measures, and hacking can be a serious problem. Then again, I'm looking at what hackers in real life are capable of, and some of the big jobs which have been done, and I'm not seeing much difference between RL and Shadowrun. (The Sony job, as was mentioned, comes immediately to mind, but then there's also some other cases as well...)

[Stahlseele]

I wouldn't expect Sony's customer databases with passwords and stuff being accessible either, but that was hacked.

A Database has to be accessible, else the database is useless for the job it's supposed to do.
Which is aggregate dat and connect the data to specific logins. People would not be able to log in with an unaccessible database.
And not able to buy stuff either. There you have a potential security risk allready built in, and one which you can't get rid off either.


As for the Matrix and Magic-Problem:
The less people know the Magic Rules, the stronger Magic gets.
The less people know the Matrix Rules, the weaker Matrix gets.

[Sengir]

Something else I just remembered: The number of defensive programs which are not just options, but the only defense against the respective attack is far too large. A user who does not want to get caught with his pants down needs to run Armor, Feedback Filter, Defuse, and Purge before even starting with the stuff required to do something. That's like requiring a mage to run a handful different Counterspelling skills, all only useful against one type of attack.

[Nath]

It's one thing I hate about 'traditional' fantasy settings -- you have cultures sitting around for hundreds or thousands of years, but not shifting at all from where they started. I'm sorry, that doesn't happen.

That no longer happens. Fantasy settings usually are closer the Roman Empire or European Dark Ages, whose culture did not change much for a bunch of centuries (not to mention Ancient Egypt, who lasted for over two thousand years). History has been tremendously accelerating in the last two or three centuries.

[Tashiro]

That no longer happens. Fantasy settings usually are closer the Roman Empire or European Dark Ages, whose culture did not change much for a bunch of centuries (not to mention Ancient Egypt, who lasted for over two thousand years). History has been tremendously accelerating in the last two or three centuries.

Actually, I needed to develop a timeline for inventions from the middle ages forward. Things happened, and technology advanced. It wasn't as astounding in specific fields as we have now, but they did move forward. The thing is, most fantasy settings are 'middle ages', but they ignore some of the things that were developed in the middle ages. Hell, most fantasy settings seem to ignore the fact gunpowder existed in the middle ages. I'm glad Pathfinder has developed firearms rules.

A good list of things invented, and how technology moved forward.

[Wakshaani]

I have dreams of the Matrix, personally. I've wanted to play a good Decker since '89, but the system's always been happy to get in the way. Many GM's don't want to learn it, and the few that do wind up with players who don't want to do it. "And the NPC decker says..." has become standard issue around every table I've ever been at.

A solid set of Matrix rules and a rocking Decker are, combined, my Holy Grail for Shadowrun.

4th ed got me closer than ever before. The 'hacker' (grumble) had to get out and about and in the mix to do things, which 2nd and 3rd had already started, but could go AR and do things on the fly, rather than slump like a broken doll in a corner and drool his way to full-immersion victory. The *style* was there, but the rules... mrf. From what I'm told, if you were a sysop, everything made perfect sense, but if you weren't, it was a mishmash of terms and blabber and just fell apart. The entry bar was still set too high.

Want to kick the door open? Gimmie a Strength test.
Want to pick the lock? Roll Lockpicking (Or, well, your Autopicker).
Want to use your Maglock sequencer to get past the door? Gimmie a Hardware roll.
Want to hack the door? Alright, first we gotta find the wireless signal. Now you have to log in. Now you have to hack an account. Now you have to upgrade that account. Now you have to find the right node. Now you ... arg!

AR hacking should be fast, as easy to learn how to do as shooting a gun, casting a spell, or jumping a fence. VR hacking can be more complex, like astral projecting is more complex for a mage than just blasting a spell, but AR should be short n sweet, an opposed roll and go.

That'd be my Xmas wish.

Also a pony.

[Matsci]

Also a pony.

[img]http://www.fimfiction-static.net/images/story_images/11808.png?1335834471[/img]

[Tanegar]

[img]http://www.fimfiction-static.net/images/story_images/11808.png?1335834471[/img]

No, Dumpshock does not support inline images. You joined four years ago, figure it out!