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> Cash for karma, What does Dumpshock think?
Tanegar
post Dec 25 2012, 07:43 PM
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One of my players (the new guy, playing an ork street doc), wants to exchange karma for cash. I allowed it, at the Karmagen rate of 1 karma per 2,500 nuyen. Now another player, the free spirit, wants to know if he can exchange cash for karma. I see his point: as a free spirit, he has almost no use for money, but is perpetually karma-starved. Should I allow it?
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Dec 25 2012, 07:46 PM
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I use a 1:5000 conversion rate, but with a limit of max. 2 karma changed/gained between sessions. I would allow it.
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All4BigGuns
post Dec 25 2012, 07:47 PM
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I'd say yeah. The only time it'd become an issue is if you're paying the team millions.
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Glyph
post Dec 25 2012, 08:17 PM
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If you let one character do it, you should let another character do it; fair is fair. But only if the free spirit has the Friendship pact (letting it earn karma on its own, rather than having to barter for it).
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Elfenlied
post Dec 25 2012, 08:37 PM
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Let them buy/sell Karma to each other.
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Makki
post Dec 25 2012, 08:39 PM
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we used
1:5000, if you wanted karma and
2500:1, if you wanted money.
max 5 karma per run can be changed.
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Tanegar
post Dec 25 2012, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Dec 25 2012, 03:37 PM) *
Let them buy/sell Karma to each other.

OMG. I like that. I really like that!
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pbangarth
post Dec 26 2012, 01:37 AM
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I have a Free Spirit PC with the Power Pact. (Friendship Pact seemed silly to an immortal being.) And he has 350,000 nuyen from a recent run in which the team sold a living toxic shaman to the IDMR (sp?). I'd love to have a deal to trade nuyen for karma!
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Prime Mover
post Dec 26 2012, 01:52 AM
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QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Dec 25 2012, 02:46 PM) *
I use a 1:5000 conversion rate, but with a limit of max. 2 karma changed/gained between sessions. I would allow it.


I've allowed a few times Sami needs cash and the Mage needs karma. Using these exact rules actually.

Edit: explanation in game. Charity for karma or karma for luck. Dropped ten K with my former foster parents to help keep up the good work. Hey I won some cash on this scratch off or my horse actually won!
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Udoshi
post Dec 26 2012, 01:54 AM
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QUOTE (Makki @ Dec 25 2012, 01:39 PM) *
we used
1:5000, if you wanted karma and
2500:1, if you wanted money.
max 5 karma per run can be changed.


I second this.

1 karma to 2500 nuyen to represent a windfall seems appropriate.
The other way around, my last gm let it happen, but at 100,000:1


As far as how it should be for BALANCE, one previous dumpshocker who's name I forget had a system that had variable exchange rates: It went up/down a bit depending on the cash/karma payouts for the given job, and had some sort of cap on it.
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Irion
post Dec 26 2012, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Dec 26 2012, 02:37 AM) *
I have a Free Spirit PC with the Power Pact. (Friendship Pact seemed silly to an immortal being.) And he has 350,000 nuyen from a recent run in which the team sold a living toxic shaman to the IDMR (sp?). I'd love to have a deal to trade nuyen for karma!

The Friendship pact is based on a specific playstyle. For this playstyle it works and it limits free spirits.

In every other playstyle it hangs between "the most stupid thing you can do" and "well, you earn Karma normally".


Yeah, the issue with Karma for Cash and Cash for Karma is, that Karma somehow keeps its value while cash gets less and less valuable.

10 Karma are two spells no matter at which point. 50k may be +3 to reaction or hardly +1. (Grades of ware)


100.000 to 1 does simply make it a non-issue unless you gain millions. At which point the question of "should we settle down" is quite an important one.
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betterwatchit
post Dec 27 2012, 02:18 AM
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I'm trying to recall which book had a version where buying/selling karma had a rate of 3D6*100.
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All4BigGuns
post Dec 27 2012, 02:34 AM
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QUOTE (betterwatchit @ Dec 26 2012, 08:18 PM) *
I'm trying to recall which book had a version where buying/selling karma had a rate of 3D6*100.



Dunno, but in SR3, the suggested conversion was 1000 nuyen to 1 karma (and vice versa).
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phlapjack77
post Dec 27 2012, 02:36 AM
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QUOTE (Tanegar @ Dec 26 2012, 03:43 AM) *
One of my players (the new guy, playing an ork street doc), wants to exchange karma for cash. I allowed it, at the Karmagen rate of 1 karma per 2,500 nuyen. Now another player, the free spirit, wants to know if he can exchange cash for karma. I see his point: as a free spirit, he has almost no use for money, but is perpetually karma-starved. Should I allow it?

Does the "bought" karma affect things like Street Cred?
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All4BigGuns
post Dec 27 2012, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Dec 26 2012, 08:36 PM) *
Does the "bought" karma affect things like Street Cred?


Wasn't really a formalized system for that that I remember back in SR3 days, but nowadays, I'd probably have it help Street Cred (probably not no affect on Public Awareness personally).
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SpellBinder
post Dec 27 2012, 03:29 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Dec 25 2012, 06:54 PM) *
...

As far as how it should be for BALANCE, one previous dumpshocker who's name I forget had a system that had variable exchange rates: It went up/down a bit depending on the cash/karma payouts for the given job, and had some sort of cap on it.
Sounds a little like what one guy I know does for the cash:karma deal. For 1 karma was 2,500, but for 2 karma it was 7,500, and 3 karma was 15,000. Same was true in reverse, 1 karma could net you 2,500, but for 5,000 it was 3 karma, and 7,500 was 6 karma.
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Halinn
post Dec 27 2012, 03:52 AM
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QUOTE (Irion @ Dec 26 2012, 02:01 PM) *
Yeah, the issue with Karma for Cash and Cash for Karma is, that Karma somehow keeps its value while cash gets less and less valuable.

10 Karma are two spells no matter at which point. 50k may be +3 to reaction or hardly +1. (Grades of ware)

I'd say the net gain for each successive point of karma becomes less. Initiating once costs 13 karma, 10th initiation costs 40. Second point of reaction costs 10 karma, 6th costs 30, etc.
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Dec 27 2012, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Dec 27 2012, 03:36 AM) *
Does the "bought" karma affect things like Street Cred?

I let only earned karma count for street cred and such.
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Tiralee
post Dec 27 2012, 12:44 PM
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Was pretty sure the 3d6 x 100 nuyen was in the SR3 Companion - never had a problem for players to do it (especially as they had to roll out each "transaction" at the table, or just take a 2500 nuyen per karma point instead.) A free spirit will REALLY need some cash/karma transfer mechanism to remain viable, as gear and similar won't make as much of an impact as paying for a lifestyle, especially if the player is scrounging.

Pretty important that the players explain their sudden good fortune (Random cash drops are fine, but paying off "favours" doubly, as in above-and-beyond, also makes for good roleplaying) and not just, "I buy a LOT of scratchies".

Donation (anonymously) of cash and materials (local neighborhood) in order to sort of pay back some of the karmic debt accrued from napalming the place is also encouraged:)

People might not want to take the money, if they knew how it was earned, so they're not going to ask - basic rules to live by, especially if it's made with no strings attached.

-Tir.
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Tiralee
post Dec 27 2012, 12:44 PM
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Was pretty sure the 3d6 x 100 nuyen was in the SR3 Companion - never had a problem for players to do it (especially as they had to roll out each "transaction" at the table, or just take a 2500 nuyen per karma point instead.) A free spirit will REALLY need some cash/karma transfer mechanism to remain viable, as gear and similar won't make as much of an impact as paying for a lifestyle, especially if the player is scrounging.

Pretty important that the players explain their sudden good fortune (Random cash drops are fine, but paying off "favours" doubly, as in above-and-beyond, also makes for good roleplaying) and not just, "I buy a LOT of scratchies".

Donation (anonymously) of cash and materials (local neighborhood) in order to sort of pay back some of the karmic debt accrued from napalming the place is also encouraged:)

People might not want to take the money, if they knew how it was earned, so they're not going to ask - basic rules to live by, especially if it's made with no strings attached.

-Tir.
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Ryu
post Dec 27 2012, 02:03 PM
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Its one of the options from the SR2 Shadowrun Companion (p.78)
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Lionhearted
post Dec 27 2012, 06:07 PM
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Something interesting happened in our session last night, it's a bit in the same veins but it might be inspirational.
So the players where trying to kill some time waiting for a tracking device to get removed from their extraction target and being on a mob street, one of the players decided it was a great idea to try his luck at the Vory casino. He didn't have enough cash to even get past the front door. But managed to hustle his way in with an edge fuelled influence spell. After buying some chips on credit (Yes he's very green) I gave him an option of Hold 'em, Roulette or Blackjack. I explained to him how he would go about playing each one (Basically extended edge tests on hold 'em and blackjack with an option to use palming for the poker) He went for the Roulette. The Roulette worked as a single edge test where he could choose to play x2, x4, x8 or x16, Threshold 2,3,4 and 5 respectively. But here's the kicker I also gave him the option to burn edge to automatically win the x2 bet.

Long story short he burnt a bunch of edge (rolling his bad luck die on each attempt) and attempted to walk away with his winnings, he got stopped in the door and was asked to turn over half of his profit for hustling his way in (I felt nice). He also got a point of notoriety for his effort.

The moral of the story is, don't hustle the Vory and burning edge on gambling will have you regret it in the morning.
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All4BigGuns
post Dec 27 2012, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (Tiralee @ Dec 27 2012, 06:44 AM) *
Was pretty sure the 3d6 x 100 nuyen was in the SR3 Companion - never had a problem for players to do it (especially as they had to roll out each "transaction" at the table, or just take a 2500 nuyen per karma point instead.) A free spirit will REALLY need some cash/karma transfer mechanism to remain viable, as gear and similar won't make as much of an impact as paying for a lifestyle, especially if the player is scrounging.

Pretty important that the players explain their sudden good fortune (Random cash drops are fine, but paying off "favours" doubly, as in above-and-beyond, also makes for good roleplaying) and not just, "I buy a LOT of scratchies".

Donation (anonymously) of cash and materials (local neighborhood) in order to sort of pay back some of the karmic debt accrued from napalming the place is also encouraged:)

People might not want to take the money, if they knew how it was earned, so they're not going to ask - basic rules to live by, especially if it's made with no strings attached.

-Tir.


Looked it up, and the 3d6 x 100 is under the "Karma and the Amoral Campaign Heading" and is specifically stated as a variation of the Cash for Karma for 'amoral' and 'immoral' characters to be able to get karma.

Personally, the 1000 nuyen per karma works very well unless the team is making millions.
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