RE: Distinctive Style Options

[ZeroSpace]

So, after a few weeks of off time due to Christmas, my game is going to be starting up again this Saturday. As such, I just want to check up on something that regards one of my players flaws. He's taken the Distinctive Style flaw twice, and when I reviewed what the flaw does, I realized I don't remember reading anything about 'physically tracking down a character' anywhere in the rules. I would prefer to have some official metric by which to determine how easy/hard it is to track someone down, to properly account for the character's 'distinctive style'.

For reference, the flaw is on pg 26 of the 3e Shadowrun Companion.

[Umidori]

Unfortunately I've never played 3e, so I can't do more than state that in 4e, it gives a bonus to "identify, trace or physically locate the character (or
gain information about him via Legwork)".

I've always took it to mean that Distinctive Style gives a bonus to Perception (for physically spotting the person you're looking for), but the bit about Legwork suggests it also gives a bonus to the Social Skills (for getting other people to tell you if they've seen a one-eyed centaur with a green mohawk and a "JetBlack Lives!" tattoo splashed across his chest in flourescent blue and silver ink). There may even be a few other situations where the bonus might apply.

For example, if an NPC is looking for a PC in a crowded bar, they get bonus dice to their Perception test to pick the PC out of the crowd and tumult. If the NPC spots them, then decides to follow them discretely, I'd probably also say also add the bonus to their Shadowing test, as their target stands out in some way. But supposing the NPC fails to spot the PC in the bar, he could ask the bartender about any notable characters coming in lately. Now, technically, the bonus dice should probably actually go to the bartender's perception check to see whether the bartender notices the PC, but that can start to get a little hairy if you don't have every ancillary character on a run statted out, so I say just give the bonus dice to the NPC actively asking about the PC.

~Umi

[Dolanar]

To add to what Umidori said, I would also give the bonus dice to applicable knowledge skills that the NPC may have that could apply to finding or knowing the PC. It may not come up much, but if the local go gang is known for associating with a freak like him, it may be worth noting for instance.

[nezumi]

It needs to be something that, if Lone Star goes to crime scene A and crime scene B, they'll saw 'ah, this is the same guy'. So examples include:

Character always wears a clown suit and all of his attacks are prank-themed
Character is a mage, and all of his spells leave an immediately obvious and distinct astral or physical signature (no aura reading required to determine who the caster is)
Character has a funny limp or visible scar that makes him immediately distinctive at a distance
Character uses an extremely rare form of attack or tool for ALL of his missions, which can be immediately recognized

What I would NOT include is:
Character has a military-grade weapon he uses when things get hot
Character really likes explosives
Character dresses very nicely and likes to stand out

I'd be on the fence in cases where the character is a ghoul, shifter, or other weird creature

[Dolanar]

I dunno, if its an extremely rare weapon that is VERY noticeable, it could qualify. Like a cutting Edge weapon Stolen from a research facility, that he now uses proudly as a "trophy"

[Ellzii]

Explain it to your player this way. This is what distinctive style is:

From Goldeneye 1995:
Valentin Dmitrovitch Zukovsky: (as Bond draws a gun to his head] Walther PPK, 7.65 millimeter. Only three men I know use such a gun. I believe I've killed two of them.
James Bond: Lucky me.
(a gun is pointed at the back of Bond's head)
Valentin Dmitrovitch Zukovsky: I think not.

Zurkovsky knew exactly who he was dealing with by the click of Bond's gun. Distinctive style works for Caribean Campaigns were being noticed is everything. Up in the frozen wastes of Seattle (Anything below 15°C and I consider freezing.) Mr. Johnson gets his drawers in a knot if the job can be traced back to you and eventually him without any or minimal legwork. That is when "deniable asset" becomes "expendable asset".

-LZ

[BishopMcQ]

Nezumi--What you're describing sounds to me much more like Signature than Distinctive Style.

Signature--There's some trademark that announces to people "I was here" and makes it easy to track you.
Distinctive Style--Memorable flair about a person that announces "I am here"

Using the Nolan version of Joker, leaving the Joker card would be a signature. If no one saw anything, the cops find the card and say "ah ha, the Joker was here." Eye-witness accounts of a madman with a knife, face paint, and scars on his cheeks would be the Distinctive Style.

[nezumi]

I don't remember 'Signature' being mentioned in Companion.

[BishopMcQ]

Signature is the 4E Negative Quality, but could easily be done in 3E as the same cost as Distinctive Style (kind of like Ugly and Doesn't Care). It covers the calling card style evidence that LoneStar gets when showing up at two crime scenes and says they were obviously the same person.

[Umidori]

I also agree that Distinctive Style is a bit different than a particular calling card, which would fit the Signature negative quality.

For example, Distinctive Style is immediately applied to all the metavariants and advanced character options in Runner's Companion. Even though a Giant doesn't look as far removed from a normal troll as a Minotaur does, they both are visually Distinctive from normal trolls. You can tell pretty much at a glance that something about this person is unusual, whether it be the fact that they're an elf covered in fur as with Night Ones, or whether they merely an ork with pronounced "fangs" in the case of hobgoblins.

"...inconveniently attention-grabbing and memorable" is how 4e Runner's Companion puts it. The sidebar for the quality also adds, "obvious,
attention-grabbing, glaring, or jarring". A giant green mohawk stands out immediately, and thus qualifies. A large and prominent facial scar likewise counts. A severe limp could count. Anything that is a permanent physical feature of the character, that helps to visually identify them, counts.

Behaviors do NOT count. Someone with a bizarre sexual fetish might be memorable for their kink, but it's not something that is visually obvious all the time. Using a Walther PPK as your exclusive weapon of choice doesn't count. Sacrificing a chicken and performing a voodoo ritual over the bodies of your defeated foes doesn't count. Regularly dressing in an outlandish ceremonial outfit such that you look like a voodoo priest or priestess, however? That probably DOES count. Unless, of course, you're attending a voodoo practitioners convention.

Distinctive Style makes you visually distinct in relation to your typical environment. It makes you stand out from those around you. If you have bright blue hair, but spend all your time hanging around punk-rockers with outlandish dye jobs, it doesn't apply. If you only ever wear gothic lolita dresses, but you live in Harajuku, you're not going to stand out from the crowds of otaku and cosplayers.

~Umi

[Lionhearted]

I'll just chime in here and say that because of the huge changes from 3rd or 4th, it's generally harder to make statements on how rules and certain mechanics work.
This is about a flaw and not a quality afterall.

[Umidori]

As I said, I haven't played 3e, so yeah, grain of salt and all, but I find that whenever I do dig up prior edition rules to compare to 4e ones, it's almost always pretty much a direct copy-paste. Only time you find major differences is when something entirely new is added.

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'll just chime in here and say that because of the huge changes from 3rd or 4th, it's generally harder to make statements on how rules and certain mechanics work.
This is about a flaw and not a quality afterall.

In this case, a Flaw (3rd Edition) directly maps to a Negative Quality (4th Edition). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

In application but not always in mechanics. A friend of mine set out to convert mental disorders from 3rd (there's a thread from way back when, about it) and found that he had to rework pretty much all of the penalties.

[Umidori]

Well that's because of the nature of the pools and whatnot between editions. The boni or mali need to match the number system the edition is using. But the matter of WHEN a player should receive a bonus or malus from a Flaw / Negative Quality? That doesn't change much.

~Umi

[Lionhearted]

@OP You should question your PC about that it seems quite odd to take the flaw twice, is he taking it for different features? I remember it being quite binary in nature... Either you're distinctive, like my all time favourite example: The satyr biker, shaman with an Elvis totem. or you're not.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@OP You should question your PC about that it seems quite odd to take the flaw twice, is he taking it for different features? I remember it being quite binary in nature... Either you're distinctive, like my all time favourite example: The satyr biker, shaman with an Elvis totem. or you're not.

Well, it is a graded Quality, from 5-30 BP worth. You could have one great big Distinction, or several smaller ones, that might stick out individually. I guess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

I should probably listen to my own advice haven't touched 3rd ed since my early teens (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Although checking with him is still a good idea, you know so his distinctive style isn't something silly.

[BishopMcQ]

Tymaeus--In 3E, it's not graded. All Distinctive Styles are worth -1. The grading came in 4E.

One possible explanation for taking the flaw twice is that he wants a distinctive Physical trait and something distinctive in Magical or Matrix tracking (which are specifically countermanded in the Flaw description, but fit with Nezumi's example of an Astral Signature that is glaringly obvious.). It would mean talking with the GM a bit, but I could see a case for it, especially if it flavored the appearance of spells for mundanes to see too.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Tymaeus--In 3E, it's not graded. All Distinctive Styles are worth -1. The grading came in 4E.

One possible explanation for taking the flaw twice is that he wants a distinctive Physical trait and something distinctive in Magical or Matrix tracking (which are specifically countermanded in the Flaw description, but fit with Nezumi's example of an Astral Signature that is glaringly obvious.). It would mean talking with the GM a bit, but I could see a case for it, especially if it flavored the appearance of spells for mundanes to see too.

Thought we were referring to 4th Edition. If not, I apologize.
EDIT: Yep, 3rd Edition... Missed the Tag at the top of the Topic. References to 4th threw me off a bit. Sorry.

[ZeroSpace]

Just to clarify, the flaw states very clearly what it does, which is reducing target numbers by to physically track/locate the character in question. The problem is that I don't remember anything about actually performing said tracking/locating. There isn't any kind of page/book quote for the task. If anyone knows where I can find something on that subject, please tell me.

[nezumi]

I also agree that Distinctive Style is a bit different than a particular calling card, which would fit the Signature negative quality.

Like I said, Signature does not exist in SR3. If the OP mislabeled his thread and intended to ask an SR4 question, or if he's playing SR3 but wants to incorporate SR4 rules, of course your entire post is fully accurate.

I went ahead and cracked open the SR3 book. It says:

A character with Distinctive Style has a flair for the dramatic in dress, behavior and speech, and simply can't stand not being recognized for his or her work.

Behavior is acceptable. Dress is acceptable. As a GM, I consider your aura a form of dress, so having a distinctive aura is acceptable. Wearing a special weapon on display at all times is acceptable (which is a slight change from my original post, about using it on missions), since you're wearing it.

The only requirement is the character be easily remembered by other individuals.

[X-Kalibur]

And stand out in a crowd.

[DuckEggBlue Omeg...]

I can only suggest (since checking my books hasn't helped, though I've no access to LoneStar which might have something) that if you want to make tests for the PC's being tracked after a run you use the rules for legwork on pg253-4 (SR3). Vague as they are, it seems the most appropriate part of the rulebook to use.

[ElFenrir]

I admit the 'grading' of a distinctive style can be a bit of a ballpark thing. For an example; a purple-haired elf dude wouldn't really get the flaw, IMO. A Surged purple haired elf dude who has Satyr Legs, Elongated Limbs, Metagenic Quality: Troll Height making him about eight and a half feet tall, Claws, Fangs, and Horns would likely have a rather high level of the style.

At the same time though, a Surged purple haired elf dude with Satyr Legs, Metagenic Quality: Troll Height WITHOUT the claws, fangs, and horns would probably have it around the same level; you just don't really forget SEEING that guy.

Now in another example, an un-naturally Short troll(say, the height of a tall orc/elf, around 7' or a hair under), may not really have it, or have it at a low level...BUT let's say the surged elf guy has normal hair, but the Troll height; he'd definitely have it(it comes with Surge...though that's something I can disagree with a bit since some Surge is internal, not external). I'm sure the short troll could be remembered as 'Yeah, he was a short troll, barely bigger than some of the taller orcs or elves I've seen', but the really big elf would be remembered as 'He was the biggest elf I've ever seen.' If someone asks ''Did you see a short troll'', you probably remember; but with average troll height around the low-mid 8 foot range, a troll around seven may not really stick out like such a sore thumb, though maybe light enough for a low level of the quality.

Then you might have the version that has nothing to do with Surge or anything, but a style. The Enigma from the Jim Rose Circus(he's the guy you may have seen whose entire body is covered in puzzle piece tattoos-can google that) would have Distinctive Style(IMO), for example.

I actually like this quality, but indeed I think it's a case of seeing what you're dealing with to see if the thing that's distinctive is distinctive enough to count as a flaw(and thus actually give people a bonus for remembering/locating them.)