[X] My Assistant

[Epicedion]

Meanwhile - yu just go ahead and keep telling yourself whatever comfortabe lies you need to, to discount that maybe, there's something to "luck" that simply hasn't been quantified yet. *shrug*

That is over the moon, sir.

[_Pax._]

Is it, really.

I get told that I've deceived myself, or that I am willfully rejecting any "evidence" (which is really just assertions "it doesn't work that way"), or that I am misremembering or misrepresenting things .... and it's okay, because ... why, again?

Yet when I turn that exact same attitude back 180 degrees around, it's suddenly "over the moon" because .... why, again?

[All4BigGuns]

Is it, really.

I get told that I've deceived myself, or that I am willfully rejecting any "evidence" (which is really just assertions "it doesn't work that way"), or that I am misremembering or misrepresenting things .... and it's okay, because ... why, again?

Yet when I turn that exact same attitude back 180 degrees around, it's suddenly "over the moon" because .... why, again?

Because most posters on both forums incessantly feel the need to denigrate anyone who says anything that doesn't fit in their little Red Sky World View in their little box in an attempt to discredit any and all who disagree with them.

[hermit]

Because most posters on both forums incessantly feel the need to denigrate anyone who says anything that doesn't fit in their little Red Sky World View in their little box in an attempt to discredit any and all who disagree with them.

That's just amazing. Talk about a victim complex. It makes you feel good about being wrong, right? That's an honest question, because people whose minds are warped fascinate me.

I get told that I've deceived myself, or that I am willfully rejecting any "evidence" (which is really just assertions "it doesn't work that way"), or that I am misremembering or misrepresenting things .... and it's okay, because ... why, again?

Yet when I turn that exact same attitude back 180 degrees around, it's suddenly "over the moon" because .... why, again?

You THINK it happens to you all the time because of the way the brain stores memories. So yes, it is over the moon if you claim otherwise because that's not the way the world works.

Talk about red sky worlds, really.

[Sengir]

I get told that I've deceived myself, or that I am willfully rejecting any "evidence" (which is really just assertions "it doesn't work that way"), or that I am misremembering or misrepresenting things .... and it's okay, because ... why, again?

Because that is how all claims of supernatural powers have ended so far once put through controlled, randomized, blinded tests? Oh right, I forgot that is just due to narrow-mindedness and the scientific establishment trying to hide the truth

[hermit]

Yes. Also, I don't really see how two peoples' persecution complex is relevant to the topic.

[All4BigGuns]

Yes. Also, I don't really see how two peoples' persecution complex is relevant to the topic.

You say "persecution complex" right after a post blatantly attacking all who disagree?

[DireRadiant]

One line off topic and non contributory replies in any thread are considered flaming and trolling.

Except for this one of course.

[Sengir]

...

[DireRadiant]

One line off topic and non contributory replies in any thread are considered flaming and trolling.

Except for this one of course.

...because as with most peddlers of pseudoscience, you provide a marvelous display of it..."help, I'm trying to tell people magic exists and they make fun of me, I'm being repressed"

Hello?!

[Sengir]

Hello?!

Was typing my response while you posted...

[Warlordtheft]

Which takes us back to the bad days of previous editions. No thanks.
Of course, this was not really directed at me, as I like the cuirrent Edge mechanic. *shrug*

I'll agree with that. I never got a good grasp of the old Karma for luck thing. I always just house ruled that burning a point of karma gave you a re-roll. Not something you did often with your combat pool, hacking pool, or magic pool. Dodge pool, and damage soak were the exceptions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Patrick Goodman]

I'll agree with that. I never got a good grasp of the old Karma for luck thing. I always just house ruled that burning a point of karma gave you a re-roll. Not something you did often with your combat pool, hacking pool, or magic pool. Dodge pool, and damage soak were the exceptions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

I loved Karma pool. I miss it. I had more than one character who stayed alive solely because of their belief that God made Karma pool just for them.

Edge can do the same thing, sorta, but it's still not the same. Ah, well, c'est la guerre.

[_Pax._]

[.... just saw the moderator post ...]

[All4BigGuns]

I loved Karma pool. I miss it. I had more than one character who stayed alive solely because of their belief that God made Karma pool just for them.

Edge can do the same thing, sorta, but it's still not the same. Ah, well, c'est la guerre.

If Edge cost about half what it does--due to the inherent finite capacity--it would be fine*, but since it is unlikely to be done because people will just bitch and moan if it were to happen, it would be better to just remove it entirely.

*Despite what some would claim the more permanent attributes are fine where they are--or possibly a bit too expensive when it comes down to actual speed of advancement--so increasing their costs would just cause a major issue where a character can't advance at a decent rate.

[hermit]

I loved Karma pool. I miss it. I had more than one character who stayed alive solely because of their belief that God made Karma pool just for them.

Edge can do the same thing, sorta, but it's still not the same. Ah, well, c'est la guerre.

/signed

I think escape death is too cheap, too.

[Falconer]

That's just it... Edge was put in to replace all the pools... and it works fine for those purposes.

I've had many characters who've done just fine surviving with edge... and I've never run into a case where I've needed to burn it. I've had cases where I've gone from 5 to none and come very close to needing to burn edge... and rarely use it on offense unless it's make or break. (a 'defensive' first strike if you will).


As far as All4Big's comments... strongly disagree. Edge is a unique attribute with unique uses. And even comes into play with edge only tests regularly in a few of my games when the GM is just testing 'luck'... just to see if someone gets lucky or not.

Given the choice of 30 karma to raise natural agility to 6 and edge to 6... I'd go with edge!

Sorry, but it's just that useful... also with all the ways to spend edge.. not all of them result in dice. Many of them can't be mimiced in any other ways. For those who don't avail themselves of it, very little can be done.



There's very few things in the setting which get better with a return to a dice pool system. About the only thing I can think off the top of my head would be TacNets... if those were a dice pool which only refreshed every so often they'd be a lot more reasonable than they are now.

[Cain]

Try rolling all 1s on a 24 dice soak pool in consecutive sessions.

For a single roll. Having it occur once in 24 years on the other hand..

Try having it happen every single game session for 24 years.

Back on topic, I certainly don't want it to be easier to critically fumble in Sr5. I fumble enough as is, thank you very much. Even though my players enjoy it a lot, it's less fun for me.

In my my experience, having a very low Edge rate only serves to punish the low Edge characters. High Edge characters simply don't need to refresh as often. It's a fallacy to assume that because they have a high Edge, they need to use it more often.

[Halinn]

In my my experience, having a very low Edge rate only serves to punish the low Edge characters. High Edge characters simply don't need to refresh as often. It's a fallacy to assume that because they have a high Edge, they need to use it more often.

One could do a fairly regular partial refresh of just a single point at a time. Then low edge characters are only punished if they're saving up their points so that the refresh is wasted.

[Sengir]

Try having it happen every single game session for 24 years.

Try having it happen as repeatable as claimed under scientific supervision and you would be filthy rich

[Tashiro]

Going by that logic, a character with a Body of 1 is punished because he can't soak damage coming in. If you aren't going to raise an attribute, you're going to suffer for having it so low. Though, having Edge recover one point per scene isn't such a bad idea.

[hermit]

It's how it's handled usually where I play SR4.

[Falconer]

Strongly disagree... the glitch mechanic needs a changeup...

Half the dice pool as 1's just doesn't come up enough once the pool goes over say 10 (very common).

Also there's the wierdness that is odd numbers... rolling odd numbers of dice is significantly less likely to glitch than even.


I still stand by my position... I'd love to see glitches changed to rolling more 1's than successes. (since each die is twice as likely to roll a success as a glitch... it's pretty agnostic to the size of the dice pool... unlike currently in which they pretty much disappear after a point). Glitches being the minor/funny monkey wrenches which get thrown into the best laid plans now and then... crit glitches being the really nasty ones.

[hermit]

That would change the game to Slapstickrun. The Glitch mechanic is devastating enogh as is; it doesn't need to be made even worse.

[Falconer]

Only if you don't do the math.

All it does is clean up the low end dice pools vs the very high end dice pools. Unless you're using very specialized stuff with defined glitch outcomes (like high risk Ex ammo), then most glitches are pretty minor... needing to take a simple/comlex action to clear a jam... or your summoned spirit is wish wording you while doing a groucho marx impression... etc.. And generally I've found glitches to be funny and humorous or simply minor setbacks which add a little bit of difficulty now and then. Not 'slapstickrun'.


It only turns slapstick if they're coming up all the time... and when you got a 1 in 3 chance of a success and a 1 in 6 of a '1' on each die... it's very unlikely that you'll roll equal number of 1's and 5/6's to produce a glitch result... The probability curve of it happening stays nice and flat though instead of disappearing into near nothingness as you go past 10 dice though.