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> The Sweep Maneuver + Attacking With Multiple Weapons, I just love asking the hard questions, don't I?
Umidori
post Feb 6 2013, 02:01 AM
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So, a martial artist attacking with two melee weapons (or more, potentially, but for now just two) via the Sweep Maneuver.

You split the dice pool, naturally. You modify each attack appropriately. The first attack succeeds, knocking the target prone while inflicting damage per the Sweep Maneuver. What happens to the second attack?

Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, because the Corebook rules assume single-weapon melee attacks. After you'd successfully knocked then to the ground, your foe could either spend an action standing up again (allowing you to use Knockdown again), or they could stay prone, at which point you'd make a normal attack with your next action.

But attacking with two weapons kinda throws a spanner in the works, because you're making two attacks with the same action. How should this be handled? Once the first attack knocks the target down, does the second attack simply fizzle out, or not happen, simply because it no longer has a valid target? That would be awfully harsh. Maybe the second attack simply translates into a normal melee attack, instead of a Knockdown attack? That way you aren't being robbed of dice, damage, and half an allowed action.

But what if you're relying on Sweep to inflict Stun Damage instead of Physical? Say you're using a non-electric weapon, or that your stun baton has run out of charge. If the second attack becomes a normal damage dealing one, does it no longer deal Stun? Or maybe because both attacks were made as Sweep attacks, it still succeeds, and still deals damage as stun (assuming it connects), but it simply doesn't knock the target down because they're already prone?

I sure do know how to find the cracks in this rule system, eh?

~Umi
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DMiller
post Feb 6 2013, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Feb 6 2013, 11:01 AM) *
So, a martial artist attacking with two melee weapons (or more, potentially, but for now just two) via the Sweep Maneuver.

You split the dice pool, naturally. You modify each attack appropriately. The first attack succeeds, knocking the target prone while inflicting damage per the Sweep Maneuver. What happens to the second attack?

Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, because the Corebook rules assume single-weapon melee attacks. After you'd successfully knocked then to the ground, your foe could either spend an action standing up again (allowing you to use Knockdown again), or they could stay prone, at which point you'd make a normal attack with your next action.

But attacking with two weapons kinda throws a spanner in the works, because you're making two attacks with the same action. How should this be handled? Once the first attack knocks the target down, does the second attack simply fizzle out, or not happen, simply because it no longer has a valid target? That would be awfully harsh. Maybe the second attack simply translates into a normal melee attack, instead of a Knockdown attack? That way you aren't being robbed of dice, damage, and half an allowed action.

But what if you're relying on Sweep to inflict Stun Damage instead of Physical? Say you're using a non-electric weapon, or that your stun baton has run out of charge. If the second attack becomes a normal damage dealing one, does it no longer deal Stun? Or maybe because both attacks were made as Sweep attacks, it still succeeds, and still deals damage as stun (assuming it connects), but it simply doesn't knock the target down because they're already prone?

I sure do know how to find the cracks in this rule system, eh?

~Umi

Because the attacks happen at the same time, I'd go with the marked solution.

-D

P.S.
I have no RAW reference to support this, however it seems the most logical.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 6 2013, 03:12 AM
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That is how we would handle it as well...
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Umidori
post Feb 6 2013, 03:27 AM
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Huh. I'm used to hearing at least a handful of people take the most restrictive or power limiting interpretation possible when I ask questions like this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi
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Mantis
post Feb 6 2013, 05:56 AM
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Are you disappointed? I'm sure we could dig up some arguments against this idea if you really, really want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Umidori
post Feb 6 2013, 06:00 AM
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Pleasantly suprised, I assure you.

One of the benefits of minimal expectations is that when they're exceeded, you get to enjoy it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

~Umi
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cndblank
post Feb 8 2013, 10:33 PM
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So just looking at the situation, if you look at the attacking with two weapon runs (AR pg 163), it says a person attacked with two weapons is minus 1 on the first attack and minus 2 on the second attack since he has already been attacked once this turn.

That strongly implies that while the attacks are simultaneous in that it is one complex action, they are treated sequentially with in that complex action.

The same thing could be said about wound modifiers. If the first dual attack causes enough damage to put a wound modifier on the defender than when the defender rolls for the second dual attack it would be with the wound modifier from the first attack.
Or say there are two targets coming through a door, one after the other. If I could knock the first one down, with the first part of a dual attack, then I could attack the second one freely with the second dual attack.

So assuming the first attack did knock the target down, for the second attack, I would give them their second attack with the +3 to the attacker and -2 to the defender for the defender being prone.
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