Melee Combat Rules - Dumpshock Forums

Melee Combat Rules

Mana Child View Member Profile	Apr 22 2004, 09:58 PM Post #1
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027	well basically i started again to read the Melee combat rules and the intro to the section said that the action or what ever took several seconds of fients, punches etc. and they claimed that it is not "i punch you and wait for you to hit me" but when i read through the whole section on melee it played out alot like Ranged combat minus and plus a few things and it didnt have any steps inbetween that i thought it would as it made me believe that in the description. Whats up with that?

Arethusa View Member Profile	Apr 22 2004, 10:06 PM Post #2
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775	Could you please type that in multiple sentences?

Mana Child View Member Profile	Apr 22 2004, 10:09 PM Post #3
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027	sorry, The Melee Section says: That melee combat is not a: i punch you and wait for you to punch me. it says that the melee combat is several seconds worth of parries dodges, fients etc. But when you read the melee rules thier pretty much just the same as the ranged ones. Whats up with that?

Austere Emancipa... Austere Emancipator View Member Profile	Apr 22 2004, 10:10 PM Post #4
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222	It's not "I punch you and wait for you to hit me" because regardless of who is the attacker, either one can get hit. Excluding Full Defense (and thus obviously also the Evasion Martial Arts Maneuver, and maybe some other rare crap), the one who scores more successes in the Opposed Test is the one who gets to potentially do damage. In a tie, the attacker wins. Thus a guy with 12 skill dice and lots of Combat Pool in melee can beat 20 guys into a pulp in a single Combat Turn even with an Initiative of 1, if all those guys make the mistake of attacking him. And from this ensues Gread Debate #4 -- or was it #5?

Mana Child View Member Profile	Apr 22 2004, 10:12 PM Post #5
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Warwick, QLD, Australia Member No.: 6,027	hmm i was a bit confused about that and i suppose i still am. would anyone mind doing a example of melee combat for me.. PLease! :P thanks

Arethusa View Member Profile	Apr 22 2004, 10:19 PM Post #6
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775	It does not work as ranged combat. Every attack is an abstraction of a set of maneuvers (description is the GM's call), and each attack is potential for the attacker to do damage. (Or so it should be, but unfortunately, in SR, every attack is a chance to get your ass kicked.) Regardless, don't look at each attack a single punch. Look at it as an abstracted portion of a fight, ending in one person getting hit or the other.

Herald of Verjig... Herald of Verjigorm View Member Profile	Apr 22 2004, 10:34 PM Post #7
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017	How to melee as displayed by useless thugs. Thug A attacks Thug B A rolls: 2,5,7 B rolls: 1,3,4 1 more success for A, B resists damage same setup, different numbers A rolls: 2,5,7 B rolls: 1,4,4 tie on successes, B resists damage (attacker wins on ties last example, A is still the attacker A rolls: 1,1,2 B rolls: 4,5,8 3 more successes for B, A resists damage, damage gets scaled up by successes

RedmondLarry

Apr 23 2004, 12:17 AM

Post #8

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QUOTE (Mana Child)

melee combat is several seconds worth of parries dodges, fients etc....

Yes, melee combat is a continuous thing for the characters, but we don't have a fast way to resolve continuous parries, dodges and feints in a table-top RPG. You're right, melee is handled like ranged combat during the Combat Turn -- the players roll initiative for characters and resolve actions one at a time in order.

It is funny to think of the characters standing toe to toe and waiting for someone to say "12" so they can throw a punch.

Yum Donuts View Member Profile	Apr 23 2004, 10:57 AM Post #9
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 228 Joined: 7-December 03 Member No.: 5,883	You're looking for the rules to describe it, they don't. You need imagination to describe it, and the rules just tell you the outcome (how much damage was taken by whom). Example from one of my games: little female gymnast-kungfu physad charges a cybered troll with a shotgun that's out of ammo. Troll tries to swing his shotgun like a baseball bat to squish adept, (rolls blunt weapons). Adept focuses on using this attack to set up her own (centers down the reach mods). As the shotgun comes down, the adept jumps, grabs and swings around it like a stripper on a pole (it's the best analogy I had). not expecting this, the troll is mostly defenseless, as the adept whirls around planting a foot sqarely in the troll's face (she scored more successes). Fortunately for the troll, his titanium bones and souped up skin don't break that easy, though his lip's bleeding and he'll have a shiner there soon (staged it down to light, which the trauma damper made stun). The adept realized this guy was too tough for her to get anywhere by beating on him, so she quickly went through with the next stage of her plan (i.e. her attack now). Pushing off the gun, she wrapped a leg behind the troll's head and caught his massive skull in a figure 4. twisting and falling, she executed a maneuver that could break the neck of an ox (rolled well on her attack +combat pool). Oxen, however, had nothing on trolls, and he caught his balance enoughto keep his neck from breaking (got a few successes on his test to lower her damage), though his jaw was now dislocated, and several muscles pulled and torn in his neck. The troll realised he needed to get her off of him, and tried to get some distance between them (he made his attack). He grabbed a leg, and broke her figure four by pure strength, and tried to throw her down with great force onto the pavement, but even with his heightened endorphins, the pain and muscle damage (wound modifiers) were too much for him to make a strong enough effort, and she got a foot underneath her stopping the fall, then springing back up and whirling in the air to deliver another kick to the troll's massive, damaged neck. her aim was perfect, and as her shin impacted with his spine, one titanium coated vertebra slipped ever so slightly severing the spinal cord, and bringing the massive brute to the ground. There's no "rules" for that. you just roll the dice, then describe what they say in words.

Luke Hardison

Apr 23 2004, 01:31 PM

Post #10

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QUOTE (Yum Donuts)

You're looking for the rules to describe it, they don't. You need imagination to describe it, and the rules just tell you the outcome (how much damage was taken by whom).

Example from one of my games: little female gymnast-kungfu physad charges a cybered troll with a shotgun that's out of ammo.

Troll tries to swing his shotgun like a baseball bat to squish adept, (rolls blunt weapons). Adept focuses on using this attack to set up her own (centers down the reach mods). As the shotgun comes down, the adept jumps, grabs and swings around it like a stripper on a pole (it's the best analogy I had). not expecting this, the troll is mostly defenseless, as the adept whirls around planting a foot sqarely in the troll's face (she scored more successes). Fortunately for the troll, his titanium bones and souped up skin don't break that easy, though his lip's bleeding and he'll have a shiner there soon (staged it down to light, which the trauma damper made stun).

The adept realized this guy was too tough for her to get anywhere by beating on him, so she quickly went through with the next stage of her plan (i.e. her attack now). Pushing off the gun, she wrapped a leg behind the troll's head and caught his massive skull in a figure 4. twisting and falling, she executed a maneuver that could break the neck of an ox (rolled well on her attack +combat pool). Oxen, however, had nothing on trolls, and he caught his balance enoughto keep his neck from breaking (got a few successes on his test to lower her damage), though his jaw was now dislocated, and several muscles pulled and torn in his neck.

The troll realised he needed to get her off of him, and tried to get some distance between them (he made his attack). He grabbed a leg, and broke her figure four by pure strength, and tried to throw her down with great force onto the pavement, but even with his heightened endorphins, the pain and muscle damage (wound modifiers) were too much for him to make a strong enough effort, and she got a foot underneath her stopping the fall, then springing back up and whirling in the air to deliver another kick to the troll's massive, damaged neck. her aim was perfect, and as her shin impacted with his spine, one titanium coated vertebra slipped ever so slightly severing the spinal cord, and bringing the massive brute to the ground.

There's no "rules" for that. you just roll the dice, then describe what they say in words.

Very similar to when I was teaching my wife the rules of combat.

"I still don't understand this. Maybe if we just practice with some sample scenarios."
"Okay, lets say our characters are in a dojo and want to spar. We face off. Roll initiative."
*dice hit table*
"Um ... 24."
"Damn, I only got 22. You go first."
"Okay, I want to attack you."
"Alright. You're close enough, so all you have to do is roll your martial arts test. Base TN is 4, and there should be no mods right now." *glances at mod chart* "Yeah, TN 4. The only mod is that, using Akido, you lose 1 dice when you are attacking. You can add any from your Combat Pool, but remember that it will be the next combat turn before you have them again."
"Oh, yeah, okay." *she picks up 5 for Akido, and 6 more from CP* "I want to get this over with quick." *grins, tosses dice*
"Oh, wow. I don't think I've ever seen that before." There are 9 2's and 2 3's staring up at me from the table.
"Okay, now I get to roll my counter attack." *12 dice from MA, Enhanced Artic., Reflex Recorder, Combat Pool* "Um ... 9 successes."
"What does that mean?"
"You get to take a little nap. As you stepped in to execute a strike, you tripped into my incoming foot and it snapped your head around right quick. You're going to need some time to sleep that off. What's your body? Maybe you can resist a little."
"Um .. 4."
"Okay, adjusted power of the attack, after successes ..." *Quick crunching for plastic bone lacing* "11. No armor, we were in the dojo."
*5 dice hit the table, body with last combat pool* "I got a 5. Does that help?"
"Nope."

TinkerGnome View Member Profile	Apr 23 2004, 02:42 PM Post #11
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706	Wife's character beater. :rotfl:

Firewall View Member Profile	Apr 23 2004, 02:57 PM Post #12
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 5-March 04 From: UK Member No.: 6,125	You really need to pull your punches...

Lilt

Apr 23 2004, 03:57 PM

Post #13

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QUOTE (Yum Donuts)

Troll tries to swing his shotgun like a baseball bat to squish adept, (rolls blunt weapons). Adept focuses on using this attack to set up her own (centers down the reach mods).

One problem: It's not actually possible to center against penalties on a melee attack during someone else's turn. To center yourself you need to spend a free action and, although it is possible to take free actions during other people's turns, you can only take it at the end of their go. As the combat technically happens simultaniously, you can't really center yourself soon enough.

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