Bear shaman and physical drain, rules question Options

[artent]

so my player wants to be a bear shamen and he had the following question...the answer will not change his character in anyway.

Bear shamens get +2 dice to resist physical damage.

When you take Physical drain(from overcasting or being in the astral) do you get the +2 to resist the physical drain.

My argument for getting the +2: its physical damage, even though its not a damage resistance check

my argument against: You are not resisting the physical damage, you are resisting drain, whatever drain you do not resist then deals you physical damage, with no chance to resist.

I am currently ruling FOR him to use the +2. I thought it might be worth it to ask though.

[Mantis]

It isn't a bonus to drain tests no matter the type of drain (Phys/Stun) so should not be included in the drain pool. It encourages overcasting for one thing since he gets more dice for those spells.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It isn't a bonus to drain tests no matter the type of drain (Phys/Stun) so should not be included in the drain pool. It encourages overcasting for one thing since he gets more dice for those spells.

Well, the Mentor Drawback for Dark King applies to soaking Drain (There is a penalty), Why would not the Bear Mentor Bonus apply?
Drain is damage. There is no distinction. If there was, then First Aid would not work either, and we know that it does.
Drain CAUSES DAMAGE... It does NOT Cause DRAIN. *shrug*

[Mantis]

Where does it say that penalty applies to drain tests for the Dark King? I wouldn't apply either mentor's dice mod to drain tests, though I can see how it can go the other way.

[darthmord]

I've always treated Drain as damage. It uses the same mechanic to reduce damage assigned to a given track. The only thing that goes into those tracks is Damage.

[All4BigGuns]

so my player wants to be a bear shamen and he had the following question...the answer will not change his character in anyway.

Bear shamens get +2 dice to resist physical damage.

When you take Physical drain(from overcasting or being in the astral) do you get the +2 to resist the physical drain.

My argument for getting the +2: its physical damage, even though its not a damage resistance check

my argument against: You are not resisting the physical damage, you are resisting drain, whatever drain you do not resist then deals you physical damage, with no chance to resist.

I am currently ruling FOR him to use the +2. I thought it might be worth it to ask though.

Drain resist is Willpower + <tradition drain attribute>, with a possible +2 for using a fetish for a limited spell and possibly Centering later on. Period. That's all you get.

[Lionhearted]

The bear mentor bonus doesn't say +2 to damage resistance tests, it says +2 to resist physical damage.
No mention of what kind of tests it applies to and drain explicitly states that it does stun and physical damage, that got the caveat that it can't be healed magically, but for all intents and purposes it's physical damage.
So yes, by the rules the bear mentor bonus should apply.

[All4BigGuns]

The bear mentor bonus doesn't say +2 to damage resistance tests, it says +2 to resist physical damage.
No mention of what kind of tests it applies to and drain explicitly states that it does stun and physical damage, that got the caveat that it can't be healed magically, but for all intents and purposes it's physical damage.
So yes, by the rules the bear mentor bonus should apply.

People say things like this and then complain about drain being too low... *facepalm*

[Lionhearted]

Well, if you don't like the truth does that mean you should obfuscate it?
If you use all of the magic rules you shouldn't have much of an issue...
Overcasting gets rather painful very quickly as soon as background count comes into play.

[Umidori]

The problem is, as usual with the rules, vague wording.

We're working with: "+2 Dice for Resisting Physical Damage"

Okay, so what do they mean by "Physical Damage"? Are we talking about the difference between Physical and Stun damage? The difference between Mundane and Magical damage? What?

If you get stabbed with a knife, I think we can pretty safely call that Physical damage. But what if your armor converts the attack to Stun? Do you still get the bonus dice? What about non-standard forms of Physical damage, like Fire Damage? And what about if that Fire Damage is Elemental in nature: the product of magic? Or what about non-elemental magical Physical damage, like getting hit by a Powerball? You don't roll to resist the damage of a Direct Spell, you roll to resist the spell itself. In comparison, Drain does actually get staged down - it's an opposed test, rather than a threshold test.

Going with the simplest option, I'd personally interpret this to be any time you roll to stage down damage that counts as Physical (as opposed to Stun), you get +2 dice. That would include resisting normal weapons, resisting mundane "Elemental" effects, resisting magical Elemental effects, and yes, even resisting physical Drain.

~Umi

[Shortstraw]

Physical goes with stun. Normal is the counterpart to magical (ie immune to normal weapons).

[Umidori]

Which is in keeping with the interpretation I settled on.

Huzzah!

~Umi

[darthmord]

Going with the simplest option, I'd personally interpret this to be any time you roll to stage down damage that counts as Physical (as opposed to Stun), you get +2 dice. That would include resisting normal weapons, resisting mundane "Elemental" effects, resisting magical Elemental effects, and yes, even resisting physical Drain.

~Umi

Eloquently stated! That was what I was going for when I commented earlier.

[MrGlee]

A little late to the party, but I was wondering, if the +2 dice to resist physical damage from the bear mentor spirit applies to drain resist, does the going berserk thing happen if you take physical drain? Not a big deal in combat, but I just have silly images in my head of a bear shaman healing some kid then flipping out because he took some drain.

[Umidori]

I'd say yes, but of course they do get to make their Composure test to resist it.

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'd say yes, but of course they do get to make their Composure test to resist it.

~Umi

Agreed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Umidori]

As for the idea of healing a kid and then flipping out, I can easily imagine the shaman fudging their resist roll and giving themself a bloody nose, and the combination of the pain and the smell and taste of their own blood making their berserker tendency flare up.

~Umi